Anne deGroot
Anne’s story begins with her mother coming to Hull from Guyana as a nurse in 1959 and working throughout her career at Hull Royal Infirmary. Anne’s one visit to Guyana was clouded by the absence of a TV! She takes us through a vivid recollection of her life from her early memories in Park Street through her teenage years and into adulthood where she had a plethora of jobs before settling into social work. Much of her recollection talks of a shared experience that many people of a certain age will identify with! She talks of her contentment of being born, bred and staying in Hull throughout her life.
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Transcription: Anne Degroot Interview
Interview with Anne deGroot
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: Feb 2017
JW: I don’t know you and the people listening are not going to know you, so can you introduce yourself please?
AD: My name’s Anne, Anne deGroot - and I was born in Hull in 1962.
JW: OK, yeah, and so tell me about your connection with Africa?
AD: Oh, well my mother came from - Guyana, South America, and recently found out that there was an African connection, I think it was my…now I did have the book at home and I’ve forgotten to bring it, but somebody’s done a family tree, and I think it was maybe Great Great Great Grandfather’s side. Allegedly he came over as a slave, married somebody in Guyana and then, so like the dynasty of all these children was started.
JW: Right OK. So you don’t know - a great deal more about it then?
AD: No, no nothing. Nothing more.
JW: Right OK. So you came, - no sorry you were born in Hull in 1962.
AD: Yes.
JW: So tell me about your earliest memories. What are they?
AD: I think my earliest memories were being brought up on Park Street near Spring Bank. There’re a few of my earliest memories. I remember going to see Father Christmas when I was small.
JW: Where was that?
AD: That was in one of the department stores, but I am not sure which one that was. But yeah, there some of my earliest memories.
JW: So where you living on Park Street then?
AD: Yeah I lived on Park Street, yeah.
JW: Where did you go to school?
AD: - I went to school at St Wilfred’s, St Wilfred’s Primary School; that was really nice, that’s when we sort of moved onto The Boulevard later on, onto the Boulevard, yeah that was a Catholic school; made friends there. And the friends that I made there, sort of like, I’ve still got now, so that’s really nice.
JW: That’s quite unusual really as well isn’t it?
AD: Oh I don’t know, not for Hull, not for people in Hull, not many people move do they from Hull. Yeah, we do stay in touch.
JW: Tell me about your family then? Do you have many brothers and sisters?
AD: No, there’s only me, I’m an only child, the only child. My mother was a nurse, qualified as a nurse in Guyana, - then she came over in 1959 with my aunt, and - and my aunt worked as a dress maker, my mother worked as a nurse. - She met my father, they met they didn’t stay together for very long. And - and then she went on to be a sister at Hull Royal Infirmary. And that’s where she stayed until she retired.
JW: So tell me more about your mum then, so fond memories of you mam and that sort of thing. As I understand, your Mum died just before Christmas?
AD: Yeah, yeah - I suppose she worked, she worked hard. She was, she had a good work ethic. She always sort of like provided for me, and she, and also she was really close to her family, sort of like, back in Guyana and help support them, and relatives used to come over and visit. I went over to Guyana sort of like once, when I was twelve, and didn’t like it. I didn’t like it because it didn’t have any television. Yeah that was a big one, no television, “oh no, I’m not staying,” and - I think the plan was for me to stay in Guyana and sort of like live with relatives, and I’m like “nah, that not my idea of fun”.
But yeah, my mother, like I say she one of these people, she kept herself to herself. - And so she wasn’t one for going out partying or, I mean she socialised with her friends, but usually at each other’s houses, so yeah, so we were pretty quiet I suppose.
JW: How close to your mum were you over the years?
AD: Close because it was only, I mean it was sort of, there was my aunt who I lived with for a while, and then, and then it was me and my mother; so it was the three of us really all along. It was just sort of like the three of us. And I say there was my aunt’s husband as well, because he used to go to sea and come back. So yeah it was the three of us that were quite close in that respect.
JW: Let’s go back to school days then. What do you remember of school days in terms of your favourite subjects?
AD: I think my favourite subject was art: art, crafts, things like that I sort of liked at school. That’s what I enjoyed doing.
JW: Any particular artists and things then that you’ve…?
AD: Sort of like as I’ve got older, I’ve got in to, sort of like art and artists and as a teenager, as I think as most teenagers do, I like the Pre-Raphaelites, so I suppose yeah that’s a pretty common one isn’t it. But I do like art and I do like visiting museums and things like that as I’ve got older and, sort of like with my children now…as they, when they were younger, we used to go to London and like visit everywhere we could.
JW: So what about your teenage years then, - what were you into when you were a teenager?
AD: Well, just recently, I was clearing out sort of like my mother’s house and things like that. I mean like she had copies of Jackie and My Guy and all that type of thing, I was surprised that she’d kept them! But yeah there was a really nice poster of sort of like Michael Jackson and Jackson 5 in there, and I were thinking, “oh I remember that,” there were some of Donny Osmond, I wasn’t a keen fan on David Cassidy but I did like the usual Bay City Rollers and yeah, things like that, yeah. So luckily I found those because that has jogged my memory for this, but yeah teenage years.
JW: So tell me about your teenage years though in terms of what you did say outside of school, places you used to go to and the like?
AD: Again, I mean like, I’m not that like exciting a person you, like doing all this, doing all that. But - I suppose one of the things I used to do I mean like, as I got older, I used to go out with my friends drinking but, so like when I was sort of like maybe thirteen, fourteen, I used to go to Wally’s, I don’t know if you know Wally’s?
JW: No, what’s Wally’s?
AD: It used to be - It was a place on Anlaby Road, and it was across the road from Tower and I don’t know if it was Reagent’s Cinema or something like that, but that was sort of like, a club for teenagers and they used to have a lot of Northern Soul music on, and that was, I can’t remember how many days of the week it was, but we used to be able to, every time we went, you could collect these different dog tags, so you’d have to sign up and be a member and you’d get a green one, and get a blue one and a yellow one, and things like that. So we went there.
JW: Your friends as a teenager…where did you find your friends? Who did you kick around with?
AD: I mean like, yeah one of my friends at school, yeah was a really good friend as a teenager, and like I say, I made friends with her, and we used to have her around quite a bit and like I say we mainly used to go over to each other’s houses, like nothing, like I say, traumatic or anything like that. And then, lots of times thinking back, I had quite a few friends that used to come over to mine and they use to sleep over and things like that. But like I say, most of the time, friends ended up coming over to mine or staying over at mine.
JW: Did you follow any particular - fashions at all?
AD: No, just fashion, whatever was fashionable at the time, that’s all. I wasn’t into anything particular. I was like I say, boring. I wasn’t into Punk, I wasn’t into…yeah I just followed the fashions at the time.
JW: Yeah what were your mum’s expectations for you in terms of career and future?
AD: She didn’t mind what I did, as long as I was happy. She really didn’t mind so long a I was happy. So there was no like, “this is what you’re going to do…this is the path that you’re going to take.” Everybody used to say, well not everybody, people used to say: “are you going to be a nurse like your mother,” and she used to laugh, ‘cos she knew I couldn’t stand it and couldn’t do it. One of the things, again thinking back is when I was younger, when I was small, my mother used to have lots of medical books, and I used to flick through the pages, when I say small, I mean three, four or five, you know what I mean like, I used to see these things and think…and use to say oh, then I’d go back and have another look at these pages, and that was enough to put me off. No so, I never had…
JW: Can you tell me more about what was on those pages, what sort of things were you looking at?
AD: Well, sort of like, I remember one particular page, and it was a man, - I think he had smallpox and that, and I think it was a black and white photograph, and his face was just covered in spots and so as a child I’d think “that’s awful.”
JW: So you really couldn’t imagine your mum dealing with these cases then?
AD: I could imagine her dealing with it, but not myself, no not at all.
JW: Was it, you know talking about your mum, was it unusual for – for there to be a black nurse on the wards at Hull Royal?
AD: I’d say, I’d say she was the one... There weren’t many black nurses at Hull Royal. But in general that was the profession that lots of black women went into, maybe in different cities because most of my friends , that we had, or my mother had growing up, and the families that we knew usually the female of the family was a nurse, they were a nurse.
JW: So nursing was never gonna to be for you?
AD: No, never, never.
JW: So as a teenager or a young woman, what were your plans and your ambitions?
AD: Well, what I wanted to do, which is, was textile design, surface pattern and textile design. But then, no, I never did it. Never did it. And - I sort of like just did lots and lots of different jobs.
JW: What was your first job then, your first pay packet?
AD: My first job was a YTS, a YTS job.
JW: The Youth Training Scheme
AD: Yeah and it was at the Warren, when it was here I suppose on this side of town, so yeah it was at the Warren. And that was fun. That was nice. And then like I say, I had a whole gamet of jobs, a whole gamet of jobs and that.
JW: On a similar theme or…?
AD: No, all diverse. All different.
JW: Tell us a few?
AD: OK then, so yeah if you want to know. So I worked in a factory. And then I got a job at - Spring Bank Community Centre, and again that was sort of in the early 80s. I remember we had a sit in then, and that was quite good. So we had a big sit it, and then from there…
JW: Let’s just pause at that because Spring Bank Community Centre, it’s very diverse ethnically now, was it back then in the 80s?
AD: Not really, and that’s, if I said yeah, I’d be lying. It wasn’t, not really. Not as diverse as it is now.
JW: So what sorts of activities were taking place at the community centre?
AD: At Spring Bank Community Centre we had, - I think we had, it was sort of like, a lot of it was sort of like during the school holidays and things like that. So there were youth based like activities, and I was a youth worker. But I do remember, thinking back, when we talk about health and safety and like taking children away on trips and things like that, because it was a community, I mean like, again there was no police checks, no nothing. And if the children wanted to go away on a trip, they all went away on a trip. We drove them to wherever they wanted to go, like Flamborough, Scarborough, Whitby, there was no sort of like a ratio to sort of like adults and children, and you think, oh my God. I mean like, everybody came back safe and well, but thinking back, yeah. So yeah, did that, and then there were a few other projects of which I can’t really remember. There were a few other projects based within Spring Bank Community Centre.
JW: Where next then after…
AD: …Spring Bank Community Centre. Then I worked catering for a bit, and that was, that was good fun. And that was a job that my friend had, had got me into it. And then, I left there and then I worked at Homeless Anonymous, and then, then I had my children and then I went on to train to be a social worker. And then I’ve had several jobs in between that sorted, suited like my family and children growing up really. So…
JW: So are you working as a social worker now?
AD: I work for social services but I work as a family practitioner at the minute.
JW: Right, what does that involve then?
AD: That’s working with families and finding out, working with families that are involved with, with social care. I’m just a little bit more hands on. So, just doing all sorts of different things. It’s one of those jobs that’s got a wide, a wide reach.
JW: So surely your mum would be proud of that because you’ve both been in very caring roles.
AD: Yeah, yeah she was pleased, she was happy. Yeah.
JW: What about your children, how old are they?
AD: My children are twenty seven/twenty six. Two boys. Yeah two boys, or two men. One lives in Manchester, he works at the university and he did a degree in - Business and Economics and he’s studying to be an accountant now. But like I say, he works in the finance side of the university. And then my youngest son, he’s sort of like, he’s still at home, but he’s got his own house and he’s still in the process of doing it up. But he lives in Hull and he works for a graphic design company in Hull.
JW: So let’s, let’s talk about Hull as a city. How has Hull changed over your lifetime do you think?
AD: Well I supposed it’s changed because nothing stays the same, it doesn’t stand still. The people of Hull have changed but haven’t changed you know what I’m saying. People in Hull still remain the same which we’re nice and friendly and things like that but, but as far as structure and economics and things like that I mean Hull is, is a very poor town now which is sad, very poor city now whereas when I was growing up it was, it was a lot more affluent and people in work, and yes, people in work, people were in the docks, people had jobs and that was it but now there’s a lot of social deprivation, a lot of social deprivation and I suppose hopefully now with the City of Culture it will make some in-roads. But yeah, it is, it’s pretty sad at the moment
JW: Legacy is a big word at the moment isn’t it...bandied around at the moment with City of Culture and like. What do you hope City of Culture’s legacy will be?
AD: I really don’t know. I mean like I’m hoping that maybe people in Hull, that the legacy for people in Hull is that people will be, will feel proud of themselves and not be so derogatory about themselves and not put themselves down and not be so accepting of – when things go wrong, that it’s ok, it’s only us, it’s people from Hull so we never get this so do you know what I mean, maybe it might put a bit more fight in people’s bellies.
JW: How do you describe Hull to people that don’t live here, if you are on the phone to somebody either elsewhere in the UK or even abroad? How would you describe the city to people?
AD: I’d say it was friendly. I’d say it was friendly, it’s quiet. People always like to come back home to Hull. I think that’s the big one. People do like to come back to Hull. As for sort of like relative that I’ve got who have visited Hull, the like Hull and they enjoy coming to Hull.
JW: I was just wondering really. You mentioned that as a teenager you were sort of attracted to textiles and design. Has that interest reappeared for you later in life? Are you into fashion or anything like that?
AD: No, no, no. People would. I mean people visit our house, they’ll say, “Oh yeah this is nice”. There's lots of things that they will say, “Oh have you made that, have you done that?” because they know that I’m certainly quite creative and that I can make things but I don’t do that anymore, I really don’t. It’s one of those things. Yeah. I can sort of mend a pair of curtains and I can stitch things but I don’t really.
JW: What about the future then? Have you got any future plans? You’ve still got a life ahead of you. Have you have a bucket list?
AD: Future plans? No. I hope to move, like to move house quite soon.
JW: Still within Hull I assume?
AD: Oh yes. Still within Hull. Not far away from Hull. I think it’s just one of those things because, because I’ve lived in the city, roughly the same place, the same area all of my life, it’s one of those things where we’ve got the amenities close by so I’d like to live somewhere where I’m close to the amenities as well, I don’t have to travel too far.
JW: Do you feel that you know the other parts of Hull. So where are, where abouts are you at the moment?
AD: I’m in West Hull
JW: You’re in West Hull…
AD: Yeah so I don’t, mainly because of work. Mainly because of work and mainly because we did have friends that lived all over Hull anyway so we did visit them. So yeah, I do, more so than most so I know, especially now with youngsters it’s sort of like East and West don’t really meet and people don’t know one side of the city but yes I do know.
JW: Some of the people we have chatted to during this project have talked about racism and some have sort of not encountered many racism at all. What about yourself as a Black woman in the city?
AD: I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t encountered racism. But – quite a lot of the racism is kind of like, I’d say maybe sort of covert racism, racism, institutional racism that type of thing.
JW: Would you make any changes. If you looked, if you could go back maybe 20, 30 years or whatever would you make any changes to your life at all?
AD: If we go back 20, 30, I think maybe I would have got a bigger mortgage when I was younger, in a better area because that’s what we always said because I wanted a house that we could afford, that we could always afford no matter whereas now I think I wish I’d invested in something a bit bigger and a bit more dramatic.
JW: And what about ambitions for your children. You’ve given us a little indication of what your children are up to?
AD: Again, I think. As long as they’re happy do you know in that lot. As long as they’re happy, I’m fine. And they are happy, yeah.
JW: And people listening in. if there’s something you’ve said and you want them to take away from this interview, a message, clear message, what would that be?
AD: I think be positive about Hull as a city. I think that yeah, I think that’s the message I would say, especially now. City of Culture so like take every advantage that it offers and brings.
JW: Would you say that generally people are more proud now? That’s there’s greater pride in the city?
AD: To tell you the truth I don’t know. I couldn’t say that. I really don’t know. I mean I suppose it’s something that I see maybe on the television like everybody else does and it’s interviews with people. At first people didn’t really know what to expect for the City of Culture whereas now that it’s happening, I think that people are beginning to be a bit more positive.
JW: Have you experienced any of the City of Culture activities in this where are we, 6 weeks, 7 weeks then?
AD: Apart from going to Ferens and the Blade and also was it the Maritime Museum, but they are the sort of places we use to visit all the time anyway so we’ve seen the changes there. But we sort of we didn’t actually experience coming into town and the new year, we didn’t get to see all the other bits mainly because you couldn’t get to them. You couldn’t get to them with the traffic and thing like that so, I think it’s good, it’s good for the people because people are taking part whereas years ago as I say when our children were small like I say we use to take them around the museum in Hull from being about maybe 2 years old, one and a half, 2 because it wasn’t much different and so they got to know the people that worked at the museums and I know when my youngest son, when he finished his Art degree, he organised the big presentation in Ferens Art Gallery and things like that so that was good for him because he’d always gone there and he got to see certain places where he hadn’t seen before and things like that.
And we also, again years and years ago when the children were small, my husband and myself used to go to Spring Street Theatre. And we used to get sort of like quite upset because the people that lived in Hull weren’t accessing the theatre, Spring Street Theatre and we use to say, “Why”, do you know what I mean, because it was for the people in Hull. People from out of town, maybe East Riding that use to access it.
Also I suppose Hull New Theatre when that eventually opens hopefully the people of Hull will access it. But again it’s, I suppose it’s people being able to afford it as well and that’s the other thing making the prices of things realistic. But, so now, with the City of Culture, I mean it was really good because with Ferens, I think the first weekend was it over 8,000 people they had go through Ferens but they were people from Hull that used it which would probably never would have gone into art galleries, into Ferens Art Gallery before so no that is a good thing.
JW: What about day trips things outside of Hull but fairly locally is there any places that are special to you, places that you’ve enjoyed going to as a family over the years?
AD: Yeah – we’ve always gone to seaside especially when the children were small. We’d always gone to seaside so we’d gone to Bridlington, we’d always gone to Scarborough, gone to Hornsea, Whitby – gone to all of those. Oh, gone to Withernsea, don’t leave ‘With’ out, poor Withernsea, gone to Withernsea as well. In recent years, but again my children were older so they didn’t come along but a friend of mine had a caravan at Reighton, Reighton Sands and that was really nice and we use to go there on a weekend. And, yeah that was really good. And that meant that you had easy access to the countryside, the moors and things like that so that was nice.
JW: Yeah. Are you well travelled at all a lot globally? Have you been to many places?
AD: No, no not at all. Been to America. Been to Guyana, been to Spain and that’s it.
JW: So how many times have you been to Guyana?
AD: Once
JW: Just the once.
AD: Never again.
JW: You were very young.
AD: Then, then. I would love to go back again now.
JW: Is that going to be something now on your bucket list then? Are you going to go back to Guyana?
AD: No, no, no, I’ve got no. I mean like unless, unless there was something happening with my family but most of my family now live in America so in that respect, no. But it would be nice to go and see it but yeah, I’ve got no particular reason to go there because like I say most of my family now are in America anyway. So …
JW: These interviews are always fascinating. We start off thinking where are we going to go with this interview and we cover so much.
AD: Mmm
JW: It’s been lovely to chat. Thank you very much for your time Anne. Thank you.
AD: No, no it’s fine, thank you.
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: Feb 2017
JW: I don’t know you and the people listening are not going to know you, so can you introduce yourself please?
AD: My name’s Anne, Anne deGroot - and I was born in Hull in 1962.
JW: OK, yeah, and so tell me about your connection with Africa?
AD: Oh, well my mother came from - Guyana, South America, and recently found out that there was an African connection, I think it was my…now I did have the book at home and I’ve forgotten to bring it, but somebody’s done a family tree, and I think it was maybe Great Great Great Grandfather’s side. Allegedly he came over as a slave, married somebody in Guyana and then, so like the dynasty of all these children was started.
JW: Right OK. So you don’t know - a great deal more about it then?
AD: No, no nothing. Nothing more.
JW: Right OK. So you came, - no sorry you were born in Hull in 1962.
AD: Yes.
JW: So tell me about your earliest memories. What are they?
AD: I think my earliest memories were being brought up on Park Street near Spring Bank. There’re a few of my earliest memories. I remember going to see Father Christmas when I was small.
JW: Where was that?
AD: That was in one of the department stores, but I am not sure which one that was. But yeah, there some of my earliest memories.
JW: So where you living on Park Street then?
AD: Yeah I lived on Park Street, yeah.
JW: Where did you go to school?
AD: - I went to school at St Wilfred’s, St Wilfred’s Primary School; that was really nice, that’s when we sort of moved onto The Boulevard later on, onto the Boulevard, yeah that was a Catholic school; made friends there. And the friends that I made there, sort of like, I’ve still got now, so that’s really nice.
JW: That’s quite unusual really as well isn’t it?
AD: Oh I don’t know, not for Hull, not for people in Hull, not many people move do they from Hull. Yeah, we do stay in touch.
JW: Tell me about your family then? Do you have many brothers and sisters?
AD: No, there’s only me, I’m an only child, the only child. My mother was a nurse, qualified as a nurse in Guyana, - then she came over in 1959 with my aunt, and - and my aunt worked as a dress maker, my mother worked as a nurse. - She met my father, they met they didn’t stay together for very long. And - and then she went on to be a sister at Hull Royal Infirmary. And that’s where she stayed until she retired.
JW: So tell me more about your mum then, so fond memories of you mam and that sort of thing. As I understand, your Mum died just before Christmas?
AD: Yeah, yeah - I suppose she worked, she worked hard. She was, she had a good work ethic. She always sort of like provided for me, and she, and also she was really close to her family, sort of like, back in Guyana and help support them, and relatives used to come over and visit. I went over to Guyana sort of like once, when I was twelve, and didn’t like it. I didn’t like it because it didn’t have any television. Yeah that was a big one, no television, “oh no, I’m not staying,” and - I think the plan was for me to stay in Guyana and sort of like live with relatives, and I’m like “nah, that not my idea of fun”.
But yeah, my mother, like I say she one of these people, she kept herself to herself. - And so she wasn’t one for going out partying or, I mean she socialised with her friends, but usually at each other’s houses, so yeah, so we were pretty quiet I suppose.
JW: How close to your mum were you over the years?
AD: Close because it was only, I mean it was sort of, there was my aunt who I lived with for a while, and then, and then it was me and my mother; so it was the three of us really all along. It was just sort of like the three of us. And I say there was my aunt’s husband as well, because he used to go to sea and come back. So yeah it was the three of us that were quite close in that respect.
JW: Let’s go back to school days then. What do you remember of school days in terms of your favourite subjects?
AD: I think my favourite subject was art: art, crafts, things like that I sort of liked at school. That’s what I enjoyed doing.
JW: Any particular artists and things then that you’ve…?
AD: Sort of like as I’ve got older, I’ve got in to, sort of like art and artists and as a teenager, as I think as most teenagers do, I like the Pre-Raphaelites, so I suppose yeah that’s a pretty common one isn’t it. But I do like art and I do like visiting museums and things like that as I’ve got older and, sort of like with my children now…as they, when they were younger, we used to go to London and like visit everywhere we could.
JW: So what about your teenage years then, - what were you into when you were a teenager?
AD: Well, just recently, I was clearing out sort of like my mother’s house and things like that. I mean like she had copies of Jackie and My Guy and all that type of thing, I was surprised that she’d kept them! But yeah there was a really nice poster of sort of like Michael Jackson and Jackson 5 in there, and I were thinking, “oh I remember that,” there were some of Donny Osmond, I wasn’t a keen fan on David Cassidy but I did like the usual Bay City Rollers and yeah, things like that, yeah. So luckily I found those because that has jogged my memory for this, but yeah teenage years.
JW: So tell me about your teenage years though in terms of what you did say outside of school, places you used to go to and the like?
AD: Again, I mean like, I’m not that like exciting a person you, like doing all this, doing all that. But - I suppose one of the things I used to do I mean like, as I got older, I used to go out with my friends drinking but, so like when I was sort of like maybe thirteen, fourteen, I used to go to Wally’s, I don’t know if you know Wally’s?
JW: No, what’s Wally’s?
AD: It used to be - It was a place on Anlaby Road, and it was across the road from Tower and I don’t know if it was Reagent’s Cinema or something like that, but that was sort of like, a club for teenagers and they used to have a lot of Northern Soul music on, and that was, I can’t remember how many days of the week it was, but we used to be able to, every time we went, you could collect these different dog tags, so you’d have to sign up and be a member and you’d get a green one, and get a blue one and a yellow one, and things like that. So we went there.
JW: Your friends as a teenager…where did you find your friends? Who did you kick around with?
AD: I mean like, yeah one of my friends at school, yeah was a really good friend as a teenager, and like I say, I made friends with her, and we used to have her around quite a bit and like I say we mainly used to go over to each other’s houses, like nothing, like I say, traumatic or anything like that. And then, lots of times thinking back, I had quite a few friends that used to come over to mine and they use to sleep over and things like that. But like I say, most of the time, friends ended up coming over to mine or staying over at mine.
JW: Did you follow any particular - fashions at all?
AD: No, just fashion, whatever was fashionable at the time, that’s all. I wasn’t into anything particular. I was like I say, boring. I wasn’t into Punk, I wasn’t into…yeah I just followed the fashions at the time.
JW: Yeah what were your mum’s expectations for you in terms of career and future?
AD: She didn’t mind what I did, as long as I was happy. She really didn’t mind so long a I was happy. So there was no like, “this is what you’re going to do…this is the path that you’re going to take.” Everybody used to say, well not everybody, people used to say: “are you going to be a nurse like your mother,” and she used to laugh, ‘cos she knew I couldn’t stand it and couldn’t do it. One of the things, again thinking back is when I was younger, when I was small, my mother used to have lots of medical books, and I used to flick through the pages, when I say small, I mean three, four or five, you know what I mean like, I used to see these things and think…and use to say oh, then I’d go back and have another look at these pages, and that was enough to put me off. No so, I never had…
JW: Can you tell me more about what was on those pages, what sort of things were you looking at?
AD: Well, sort of like, I remember one particular page, and it was a man, - I think he had smallpox and that, and I think it was a black and white photograph, and his face was just covered in spots and so as a child I’d think “that’s awful.”
JW: So you really couldn’t imagine your mum dealing with these cases then?
AD: I could imagine her dealing with it, but not myself, no not at all.
JW: Was it, you know talking about your mum, was it unusual for – for there to be a black nurse on the wards at Hull Royal?
AD: I’d say, I’d say she was the one... There weren’t many black nurses at Hull Royal. But in general that was the profession that lots of black women went into, maybe in different cities because most of my friends , that we had, or my mother had growing up, and the families that we knew usually the female of the family was a nurse, they were a nurse.
JW: So nursing was never gonna to be for you?
AD: No, never, never.
JW: So as a teenager or a young woman, what were your plans and your ambitions?
AD: Well, what I wanted to do, which is, was textile design, surface pattern and textile design. But then, no, I never did it. Never did it. And - I sort of like just did lots and lots of different jobs.
JW: What was your first job then, your first pay packet?
AD: My first job was a YTS, a YTS job.
JW: The Youth Training Scheme
AD: Yeah and it was at the Warren, when it was here I suppose on this side of town, so yeah it was at the Warren. And that was fun. That was nice. And then like I say, I had a whole gamet of jobs, a whole gamet of jobs and that.
JW: On a similar theme or…?
AD: No, all diverse. All different.
JW: Tell us a few?
AD: OK then, so yeah if you want to know. So I worked in a factory. And then I got a job at - Spring Bank Community Centre, and again that was sort of in the early 80s. I remember we had a sit in then, and that was quite good. So we had a big sit it, and then from there…
JW: Let’s just pause at that because Spring Bank Community Centre, it’s very diverse ethnically now, was it back then in the 80s?
AD: Not really, and that’s, if I said yeah, I’d be lying. It wasn’t, not really. Not as diverse as it is now.
JW: So what sorts of activities were taking place at the community centre?
AD: At Spring Bank Community Centre we had, - I think we had, it was sort of like, a lot of it was sort of like during the school holidays and things like that. So there were youth based like activities, and I was a youth worker. But I do remember, thinking back, when we talk about health and safety and like taking children away on trips and things like that, because it was a community, I mean like, again there was no police checks, no nothing. And if the children wanted to go away on a trip, they all went away on a trip. We drove them to wherever they wanted to go, like Flamborough, Scarborough, Whitby, there was no sort of like a ratio to sort of like adults and children, and you think, oh my God. I mean like, everybody came back safe and well, but thinking back, yeah. So yeah, did that, and then there were a few other projects of which I can’t really remember. There were a few other projects based within Spring Bank Community Centre.
JW: Where next then after…
AD: …Spring Bank Community Centre. Then I worked catering for a bit, and that was, that was good fun. And that was a job that my friend had, had got me into it. And then, I left there and then I worked at Homeless Anonymous, and then, then I had my children and then I went on to train to be a social worker. And then I’ve had several jobs in between that sorted, suited like my family and children growing up really. So…
JW: So are you working as a social worker now?
AD: I work for social services but I work as a family practitioner at the minute.
JW: Right, what does that involve then?
AD: That’s working with families and finding out, working with families that are involved with, with social care. I’m just a little bit more hands on. So, just doing all sorts of different things. It’s one of those jobs that’s got a wide, a wide reach.
JW: So surely your mum would be proud of that because you’ve both been in very caring roles.
AD: Yeah, yeah she was pleased, she was happy. Yeah.
JW: What about your children, how old are they?
AD: My children are twenty seven/twenty six. Two boys. Yeah two boys, or two men. One lives in Manchester, he works at the university and he did a degree in - Business and Economics and he’s studying to be an accountant now. But like I say, he works in the finance side of the university. And then my youngest son, he’s sort of like, he’s still at home, but he’s got his own house and he’s still in the process of doing it up. But he lives in Hull and he works for a graphic design company in Hull.
JW: So let’s, let’s talk about Hull as a city. How has Hull changed over your lifetime do you think?
AD: Well I supposed it’s changed because nothing stays the same, it doesn’t stand still. The people of Hull have changed but haven’t changed you know what I’m saying. People in Hull still remain the same which we’re nice and friendly and things like that but, but as far as structure and economics and things like that I mean Hull is, is a very poor town now which is sad, very poor city now whereas when I was growing up it was, it was a lot more affluent and people in work, and yes, people in work, people were in the docks, people had jobs and that was it but now there’s a lot of social deprivation, a lot of social deprivation and I suppose hopefully now with the City of Culture it will make some in-roads. But yeah, it is, it’s pretty sad at the moment
JW: Legacy is a big word at the moment isn’t it...bandied around at the moment with City of Culture and like. What do you hope City of Culture’s legacy will be?
AD: I really don’t know. I mean like I’m hoping that maybe people in Hull, that the legacy for people in Hull is that people will be, will feel proud of themselves and not be so derogatory about themselves and not put themselves down and not be so accepting of – when things go wrong, that it’s ok, it’s only us, it’s people from Hull so we never get this so do you know what I mean, maybe it might put a bit more fight in people’s bellies.
JW: How do you describe Hull to people that don’t live here, if you are on the phone to somebody either elsewhere in the UK or even abroad? How would you describe the city to people?
AD: I’d say it was friendly. I’d say it was friendly, it’s quiet. People always like to come back home to Hull. I think that’s the big one. People do like to come back to Hull. As for sort of like relative that I’ve got who have visited Hull, the like Hull and they enjoy coming to Hull.
JW: I was just wondering really. You mentioned that as a teenager you were sort of attracted to textiles and design. Has that interest reappeared for you later in life? Are you into fashion or anything like that?
AD: No, no, no. People would. I mean people visit our house, they’ll say, “Oh yeah this is nice”. There's lots of things that they will say, “Oh have you made that, have you done that?” because they know that I’m certainly quite creative and that I can make things but I don’t do that anymore, I really don’t. It’s one of those things. Yeah. I can sort of mend a pair of curtains and I can stitch things but I don’t really.
JW: What about the future then? Have you got any future plans? You’ve still got a life ahead of you. Have you have a bucket list?
AD: Future plans? No. I hope to move, like to move house quite soon.
JW: Still within Hull I assume?
AD: Oh yes. Still within Hull. Not far away from Hull. I think it’s just one of those things because, because I’ve lived in the city, roughly the same place, the same area all of my life, it’s one of those things where we’ve got the amenities close by so I’d like to live somewhere where I’m close to the amenities as well, I don’t have to travel too far.
JW: Do you feel that you know the other parts of Hull. So where are, where abouts are you at the moment?
AD: I’m in West Hull
JW: You’re in West Hull…
AD: Yeah so I don’t, mainly because of work. Mainly because of work and mainly because we did have friends that lived all over Hull anyway so we did visit them. So yeah, I do, more so than most so I know, especially now with youngsters it’s sort of like East and West don’t really meet and people don’t know one side of the city but yes I do know.
JW: Some of the people we have chatted to during this project have talked about racism and some have sort of not encountered many racism at all. What about yourself as a Black woman in the city?
AD: I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t encountered racism. But – quite a lot of the racism is kind of like, I’d say maybe sort of covert racism, racism, institutional racism that type of thing.
JW: Would you make any changes. If you looked, if you could go back maybe 20, 30 years or whatever would you make any changes to your life at all?
AD: If we go back 20, 30, I think maybe I would have got a bigger mortgage when I was younger, in a better area because that’s what we always said because I wanted a house that we could afford, that we could always afford no matter whereas now I think I wish I’d invested in something a bit bigger and a bit more dramatic.
JW: And what about ambitions for your children. You’ve given us a little indication of what your children are up to?
AD: Again, I think. As long as they’re happy do you know in that lot. As long as they’re happy, I’m fine. And they are happy, yeah.
JW: And people listening in. if there’s something you’ve said and you want them to take away from this interview, a message, clear message, what would that be?
AD: I think be positive about Hull as a city. I think that yeah, I think that’s the message I would say, especially now. City of Culture so like take every advantage that it offers and brings.
JW: Would you say that generally people are more proud now? That’s there’s greater pride in the city?
AD: To tell you the truth I don’t know. I couldn’t say that. I really don’t know. I mean I suppose it’s something that I see maybe on the television like everybody else does and it’s interviews with people. At first people didn’t really know what to expect for the City of Culture whereas now that it’s happening, I think that people are beginning to be a bit more positive.
JW: Have you experienced any of the City of Culture activities in this where are we, 6 weeks, 7 weeks then?
AD: Apart from going to Ferens and the Blade and also was it the Maritime Museum, but they are the sort of places we use to visit all the time anyway so we’ve seen the changes there. But we sort of we didn’t actually experience coming into town and the new year, we didn’t get to see all the other bits mainly because you couldn’t get to them. You couldn’t get to them with the traffic and thing like that so, I think it’s good, it’s good for the people because people are taking part whereas years ago as I say when our children were small like I say we use to take them around the museum in Hull from being about maybe 2 years old, one and a half, 2 because it wasn’t much different and so they got to know the people that worked at the museums and I know when my youngest son, when he finished his Art degree, he organised the big presentation in Ferens Art Gallery and things like that so that was good for him because he’d always gone there and he got to see certain places where he hadn’t seen before and things like that.
And we also, again years and years ago when the children were small, my husband and myself used to go to Spring Street Theatre. And we used to get sort of like quite upset because the people that lived in Hull weren’t accessing the theatre, Spring Street Theatre and we use to say, “Why”, do you know what I mean, because it was for the people in Hull. People from out of town, maybe East Riding that use to access it.
Also I suppose Hull New Theatre when that eventually opens hopefully the people of Hull will access it. But again it’s, I suppose it’s people being able to afford it as well and that’s the other thing making the prices of things realistic. But, so now, with the City of Culture, I mean it was really good because with Ferens, I think the first weekend was it over 8,000 people they had go through Ferens but they were people from Hull that used it which would probably never would have gone into art galleries, into Ferens Art Gallery before so no that is a good thing.
JW: What about day trips things outside of Hull but fairly locally is there any places that are special to you, places that you’ve enjoyed going to as a family over the years?
AD: Yeah – we’ve always gone to seaside especially when the children were small. We’d always gone to seaside so we’d gone to Bridlington, we’d always gone to Scarborough, gone to Hornsea, Whitby – gone to all of those. Oh, gone to Withernsea, don’t leave ‘With’ out, poor Withernsea, gone to Withernsea as well. In recent years, but again my children were older so they didn’t come along but a friend of mine had a caravan at Reighton, Reighton Sands and that was really nice and we use to go there on a weekend. And, yeah that was really good. And that meant that you had easy access to the countryside, the moors and things like that so that was nice.
JW: Yeah. Are you well travelled at all a lot globally? Have you been to many places?
AD: No, no not at all. Been to America. Been to Guyana, been to Spain and that’s it.
JW: So how many times have you been to Guyana?
AD: Once
JW: Just the once.
AD: Never again.
JW: You were very young.
AD: Then, then. I would love to go back again now.
JW: Is that going to be something now on your bucket list then? Are you going to go back to Guyana?
AD: No, no, no, I’ve got no. I mean like unless, unless there was something happening with my family but most of my family now live in America so in that respect, no. But it would be nice to go and see it but yeah, I’ve got no particular reason to go there because like I say most of my family now are in America anyway. So …
JW: These interviews are always fascinating. We start off thinking where are we going to go with this interview and we cover so much.
AD: Mmm
JW: It’s been lovely to chat. Thank you very much for your time Anne. Thank you.
AD: No, no it’s fine, thank you.