Chiedu Oraka
Chiedu Oraka is 28 years old. He was born and raised in North Hull and is of Nigerian descent. He has been a musician for the past six years and also works within pastoral support in a local secondary school. Chiedu gives a perspective of being a Black child growing up in North Hull. He talks candidly about the values instilled in him that have helped him find his place in the world.
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transcription: Chiedu Oraka Interview
Interview with Chiedu Oraka
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 14 July 2016
JW: It’s always great interviewing somebody that I’ve never met before. I don’t know a great deal about you at all.
CO: Alright.
JW: So you know, just for the sake of the listener tell me your name and let’s get going.
CO: My name is Chiedu Oraka. I’m a musician. I would say I’ve been doing music now for about - properly for about six years.
JW: OK. Let’s come onto that a little bit later. Let’s take you right back.
CO: Right back.
JW: Right back.
CO: Well what do you want to know about Chiedu Oraka?
JW: Your connection with Africa. Are you African born or African descent?
CO: African descent.
JW: So tell me about that ancestry?
CO: OK, well basically as you can tell my name is African, Nigerian name.
JW: Nigerian, right.
CO: Igbo name - my mum Justina Oraka - she’s the one who brought me up. In the north part of the city which we lived, my first house that I ever can remember was down Auckland Avenue. I don’t know if you’re aware of Cranbrook Avenue? - then we moved to Twenty-first Avenue on the estate. I was born at Hedon Road Hospital - 1987. My mum came over to England to study basically.
JW: OK.
CO: At the Hull University.
JW: What was her subject?
CO: Her subject? She’s going to kill me for this. You know what? I don’t even know.
JW: You don’t know?
CO: I think it’s Social Science - I believe - I believe it’s Social Science - I think. I’m not too sure. She’s probably, when she hears this she probably won’t be very happy. But I think it was Social Science. She did her first degree in Nigeria then she did her Masters over here - then she stayed over here basically.
JW: Do you know why she chose to come to the UK?
CO: Because her university were partners with Hull University
JW: OK.
CO: So that was the reason why she came to Hull. Then I’ve got a big sister called Nkolika Oraka. She’s a solicitor. So yeah we just stayed. Nkolika was born here as well. Nkolika had a bit of time in Nigeria so I think she was born here and then they went back and they came back again. So yeah, that’s my Nigerian background.
JW: So tell me something about your early years then? Life at school, and that sort of thing?
CO: Er.
JW: Well let’s be honest. I moved to Hull in 1994.
CO: Yes.
JW: Yes, and it was months and months and months before I found anybody of…
CO: Black origin?
JW: Black origin at all…
CO: At school.
JW: So for you growing up in Hull it must have been…?
CO: I’ve got so many stories. So many stories so that’s why I’m glad you invited me for the interview because I think these experiences need to be heard really. So my experience growing up I was the only Black kid on my street, definitely. On the estate I think there was a family who were mixed race, the Louths, they were like a stone throw away. They lived on Fifth Avenue and then there’s a kid called Gareth Webster as well. So on North Hull Estate really and he was mixed as well, so North Hull Estate I was the only like fully fledged…
JW: Fully fledged Black...?
CO: Fully fledged Black guy. School - I went to Endsleigh Primary School - the only Black kid in the school. Then I went to St Mary’s College Secondary. And…
JW: So being the only Black kid in the school was that a positive for you or a negative?
CO: Both if I’m going to be honest. I think later on there was a girl called Zooander actually and another girl called Krista that came when we was in the Year 5 so for the majority, definitely, I was the only Black kid. Positively, positive sorry - phew, it was just a bit good to be different I think. Negatives I felt like I didn’t really know myself really in the fact that my identity, because I was around white people all the time. My mum always use to remind me that “you’re not the same as these, you need to understand that”. Because there was a lot of racism - not really much in school that much where I lived really. Because I think, and to be honest with you, I look back and it was tough but then I look and think they’d never seen a Black person before so the only Black people they’d seen were on television.
JW: OK, going back to what your mum said to you. What was it about your Black identity that your mum wanted you to understand especially?
CO: I think she always wanted to remind me that I was a Black Nigerian boy and that people would always look at me differently. She said unfortunately that’s just the way the world is or the way your community is. Maybe if I lived in London or cities with more multi - with more races in - more multicultural basically it would have been different but living in a white city, my mum used to always say “you’re not going to be able to get away with the thing that your peers get away with because you’re the one that’s always going to be seen, so you will need to start realising that you’ve got to try harder than them when it comes to applying for stuff or even you need to be if you want to be top of the class you need to work extra harder”, because unfortunately there is stigmas there is perception and there is racism. Basically, so she used to always remind me. She said never forget where you came from ever.
JW: How would your mum have described what it was to be Black Nigerian? What was the identity for her?
CO: My - my mum is just the strongest woman I’ve ever come across in my life. I don’t really know anyone who’s - she’s my role model really - I don’t really know anyone who’s as strong as that woman. She’s been through so much, and I think her - I think if she was going to say what the identity of an African woman is, is just to be a strong independent woman. Not to rely on anyone for anything. And always voice your opinion. Don’t let anyone walk all over you because you always need to know you self worth. So I think that’s what she would have said really.
JW: OK yes. Can I ask where dad is in this?
CO; My dad, I had - I mean to be honest with you, to be realistic with you, I’m going to be honest with you, I don’t really know my dad. The only experience I’ve got of my dad is because I’ve only been to Nigeria twice. I went once when I was about eight and the second time when I was about fourteen. The first time I went, I saw him and my memories is that he lived - my dad was known to be a very wealthy man - looked after everyone around him. The stories I’ve been told is that he had a bit of a nervous breakdown and went a bit doolally basically, and I went to go see him and I actually remember he had a massive land. His house was on a massive land with gates all around his house and I went to go, I remember sitting on his knee and that is, that is the only memory I’ve got of my dad except for pictures, there’s loads of pictures in the house and stuff like that but obviously him and my mum had a disagreement or something happened along the lines really and he’s never been a part of my life so to be honest with you, my mum is my mum and my dad, she’s both.
JW: What were your expectations of Nigeria when you went over there?
CO: That’s a good question - phew, I didn’t really know what to expect really, I mean, I suppose I was sort of like just what a lot of white people would have thought, that it was just poverty and, I’m just going to see kids with flies on their faces and I’m going to see elephants, I’m going to see monkeys in the trees and stuff like that. See it’s an ignorant way of thinking but because I’d never experienced that, I didn’t know. But I got a big culture shock when I got there because it wasn’t like that. My family are - they’re quite well off. They’re OK. They live in the town Onitsha, that’s where my mum was born, that’s where my mum is from. And, and, it wasn’t like that at all, like it was, it was a good experience really. The second time was a bit scary though because I got ill and I went to the Nigerian hospital and they’re nothing like the UK hospitals. That’s why the people in the UK, people who have got the NHS need to be very thankful that they’re in a position like that because Nigerian hospitals are not the same. They are very poverty ridden and I saw some kid die in the bed next to me and that shook me up and to be honest with you my mum always laughs but that’s the reason why I haven’t’ been back because of that experience, when I was, when I was like fourteen because I nearly died in that hospital. I think I ate some dodgy food and it was horrible like, I was ill for days, in the hospital and it just wasn’t nice, and I still remember the smell it was awful but barring that experience, everything was good, everything was good. And now my relative are always telling me to come back it’s different now, you’ll have such a nice time, loads of wonderful girls, blah, blah, blah, so I might need to go.
JW: So your mum instilled in you this idea?
CO: Yeah.
JW: …that it’s good to be different?
CO: Yes, my mum, because I was just a frustrated kid, I mean I was not a very behaved young man. Caused my mum a lot of dramas growing up, because I didn’t know who I was. I was trying to fit in I believe. It’s only till I’d say the last five, five/six years that I have been - like when someone says to me where are you from, I used to always say , “I’m from Hull. I’m from England”. Even though I am from there. I was born down Hedon Road about five miles away from here [Alfred Gelder Street, Hull] where a lot of kids from my generation were born. Lived on North Hull Estate all my life and I always use to say, “I’m British, I’m like - I am African” and I used to shy away from that, being embarrassed that my memories of school is teacher getting my name wrong and then you hear the little sniggers from your friends, the laugh. They are the memories that stick in my mind and really they shouldn’t but growing up being young and wanting to fit in with everyone else when you hear people laugh when the teacher gets your name wrong, it gets embarrassed or I’ll say my name before they can say it so that I don’t have to deal with the embarrassment so, so them sort of experiences used to make me feel bad a little bit. I used to feel like I was an alien and, I didn’t embrace them when I should have done but when you’re young, you don’t embrace things like that. You just try and fit in with everyone else so yes, that, but now I’m so proud of being a Nigerian. So proud of it, of being an African, I love it. But before, I didn’t think I did.
JW: So are there any particular aspects of Nigerian culture, African culture that you try to have in your life now or to share with others?
CO: Just the good vibes. The good vibes like. I just think that Nigerian people are so, they’re happy, they are very happy and they are very positive. God-fearing. Excitable characters, like proper eccentrics. You walk in a room and, not just an - not even just a Nigerian, an African person like they’re always the centre of the party. Like we have got a perception of being angry and moody sometimes and I think we are, sometimes we are but that’s what I take from the African culture, just the good vibes, the positivity. The being so proud of where you come from. Being proud of your family. Doing anything for your family. That’s what I’d like to take from the African culture. Definitely.
JW: You’ve obviously got a really good balance of understanding?
CO: Yes.
JW: The African identity.
CO: Mmmm.
JW: ….as well as the British identity.
CO: And that’s why I got it wrong as a youngster. I didn’t understand and that’s why I meant by my mum use to always remind me that I’m Black and you’re a Nigerian boy. You’re not like your peers because, and I know why she used to remind me of that now. Because that at first I used to get angry when she used to say that, “What do you mean mum, blah, blah, blah”, like because I didn’t understand what she meant. Now as I’ve got older I understand now. And she wasn’t saying it to be nasty to my white friends or to the white culture or British culture. She used to just remind me like remember who you are like the Oraka name means something like just remember like be proud and always try your best.
JW: Let’s talk more widely now about your influences.
CO: Yes.
JW: Obviously you’re influenced by your African descent. You’re a Nigerian.
CO: Mmmm.
JW: So tell me something about your music and the influences?
CO: Growing up like, growing up anyone will tell you like, if you’re from Africa the party culture is a big thing. Like when there’s a party it’s massive. The full street knows about it. Like I remember growing. I don’t think Twenty-first Avenue had ever seen as , like, they must have thought - I don’t know, they must have thought it was the African Nations or something. When my mum use to have parties because so many African people from all over, from Zimbabwe, South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana big parties barbecues like I remember, I remember when I got, christened. Massive parties like my mum used to, she was known for throwing good parties. Music, African music, West Indian music, even British music. UB40 was getting played in my house all the time when it was a party, all the time. And we used to just party till the hours, like the early hours of the morning. So that was my first musical influence probably. And then my big sister, she was heavily into music. She use to like R &B music and rap music. Every year we used to go to Nottinghill Carnival, stay with my auntie in Stoke Newington. We use to always go there. So they were my early influences in music like writing music probably started happening when I was about seventeen, one of my friends called Danny Craft. He started rapping and he got me into it because we use to just mess around in his bedroom and, he use to say “Oh I think you’re good, I think you should like put your thoughts down on paper”, and I was like “Nah, I don’t think, I don’t think it’s for me”. Started doing it and then I went to university, stopped doing it, then I came back and that’s when I started taking it seriously. So yeah.
JW: My shallow and very narrow understanding of rap is often - well rap is really giving a message.
CO: Yeah, it’s always about the message.
JW: So what - what are the key messages you putting across?
CO: Just to be, the key message for me is to be yourself, that’s to tell the viewer or the listener that I’m a Hull boy and I’m proud to be Hull. I’m proud to be from Hull. I’m proud to be an African boy. I’m proud of where I live, the estate that I’ve been brought up on. The clothes that I wear. The things that I’ve been through. They’re the things that I like to put out in my music. I feel like, I’m sort of like a news reporter really.
JW: Mmmm.
CO: I’m just, I’m a product of my environment. I’m telling people about my environment so I’m telling the people things that they might not hear on the news because the news, BBC and ITV they’re corporations so they, they’re not always going to tell the viewer what they, what’s really happening. Me, there’s no holds barred. I’m telling you what really is happening.
JW: Can you give me some examples?
CO: I did a song called I’m From a City. What a bit of people know me for in this city. It got criticised a little bit because the first two verses are quite, people would say quite negative. Because I’m giving people my perception of what I feel it’s like to live in Hull, what people are like in Hull. They might not like what I’m saying but if people are going to be really honest with themselves, it’s the truth. I think Hull can be a negative place to live. There’s a lot of people with negative mindsets, “Oh we can’t do this, we can’t do that”. “Why can’t’ you do this, why can’t you do that? Give me the, give me the answers why?”
JW: Mmmm.
CO: They don’t, I don’t think Hull - I think Hull lacks a lot of self-belief. So the first song, I mean not the first song, the first two verses concentrate on that, that negative energy that we possess in Hull. The third verse was like a celebratory verse of thing that, “Wait a minute we’re from Hull. You should be proud of these things that we’ve got”. Don’t moan and complain that we’ve not given any chances or we’re not given any opportunities. Make some chances, make some opportunities. Look at the things that I’m saying in this verse. The Wilberforce Legacy, we’ve got two rugby clubs, we’re in the top league of rugby league, Hull City are in the Premiership. Hull Fair, the biggest fair in Europe. We’ve got so many, Luke Campbell, the Olympic gold medallist. You know what I mean? There’s so many things that we should be proud of and we should be coming off the back of that positivity and making some more positivity. Be great, we need to be great and a lot of people in this city don’t have that mentality but it will change. Slowly but surely it will change.
JW: Yes. The media has often portrayed…
CO: Yes.
JW: ...Hull as a Northern city in poverty.
CO: Mmmm.
JW: So , I mean you would obviously agree?
CO: Yeah.
JW: Actually the poverty here is more a poverty of aspiration.
CO: Yeah, definitely. That’s what I’m trying to say. No one inspires to be a great. I don’t know if that’s to do with our school system, the kids getting taught, like, I think when you’re going to, into schools sometimes, there’s divisions. I work in education so I know more than most, that, you know there’s divisions. You have the kids who are low achievers, the kids that bob around in the middle, then you have your high achievers. I’m a believer of you should scrap that. I feel that life’s a level, a level playing field. That’s how I feel.
JW: Tell me more then about your employment?
CO: So I work at Andrew Marvell.
JW: Yes.
CO: A school on the east part of the city.
JW: What’s your role there?
CO: I’m an achievement mentor.
JW: Right OK.
CO: I’m attached to Year 11 - my current, my current Year 11 who have just left. I was with them in Year 10s that were there last year. I’m going to be with them in Year 11. And my role basically is, is aimed around pastoral, I don’t know if you’re aware of that word, it’s basically the foundation of the school. It’s what holds the school together, the pastoral care. Because in East Hull there’s a lot of kids, a lot of troubled kids. And a lot of kids, that have got no aspirations. Like we were talking about a couple of minutes ago, where they don’t believe they can achieve anything in their life. Where they’ve been told that they are not going to do anything with their life. Where they’ve got their role models that aren’t very positive. So that’s my main role. I feel at Andrew Marvell is that basically give these kids a good ‘go-to’ person because they might not have anyone at home who they speak to about their problems.
JW: Would you say that as a, a parallel for the whole city really….?
CO: Yes, I, I don’t think…
JW: …it’s a city almost that’s coming out of special measures and now a city of opportunity.
CO: Yes well I hope so, that’s what I really hope happens. I’m yet to see it but I do realise it’s a very tall order. So I know it’s going to take time. But yeah, you could say that it is a city that’s coming out of special measures because it’s a city that I don’t personally believe is a fan of the education system really. I don’t think they believe in it. And I think there’s been a lot of the kids that’s been let down by it so the parents have got a little bit of a reason to be angry with some of the schools in this city. Because I think some of the schools in this city have failed miserably to be honest with you. I do believe that.
JW: Do you have children of your own?
CO: No, no, not yet. I’m twenty-eight. My mum is always banging on saying that you need to bring some children into this earth but right now I don’t think is the right time.
JW: How important do you think – your Nigerian background will be to your children…?
CO: Massive.
JW: ...if you have children?
CO: Massive. Huge, huge because my mum was quite strict , quite firm but she was very loving as well. You need that balance. It’s a very important balance. My mum was very, my mum. Education is everything to my mum. Like she’s got a degree, a Masters, my sister’s a solicitor. I qualified in Sports Development and coaching – so it was very important for her to instil education is everything – and it’s not everything though that’s why I disagree with her sometimes. Because it’s not everything . I think life experience is everything. And I’ve got a lot of them. I got them both. I’ve got education and I’ve got life experiences so I’m happy really. I’ve got a good foundation. My mum gave me a good - a fantastic foundation so but, going back to your question, yeah, the African, the African side of me will be definitely instilled in my children. Has to be. My mum wouldn’t even, my mum wouldn’t even have it any other way. It would have to happen.
JW: I’ve got two teenage sons myself. Obviously we’ve been through the referendum.
CO: Oh yeah.
JW: We’ve voted leave haven’t we? My sons are really well travelled, far better travelled than I am.
CO: Oh right, that’s great.
JW: So there’s a general sense amongst young people I feel – that young people look to themselves not just as English, just British but perhaps European, Place themselves more widely. To what extend do you think geographical boundaries still exist?
CO: Yeah, I do.
JW: You do?
CO: I feel, I mean I’ve had so many debates with my friends about this referendum. And even debates with teachers at school – and you have to listen to everyone’s opinion don’t you? I mean when you have an argument that’s what it’s about. And I think people would be lying if they said that this referendum wasn’t’ decided on immigration which pains me really. It pains, and this is why I feel this city is a little bit far behind especially only judging by the things I’ve seen on Facebook and the things I’ve seen in the community when I’ve gone to the shops and had conversations with my neighbours and stuff like that. They’re basing it on immigration. They’re basing it on people coming here and taking which I think is wrong really. So I think that we are a bit for, this city especially are far behind because if you really think that other cultures are here only to take, and you’re not willing to accept other cultures, then really why were we awarded the City of Culture?
JW: Is the city no longer reflecting the ethos, the values of Wilberforce? Of freedom and equality?
CO: No, I don’t think the city is reflecting that if I’m going to be honest. If I want to be brutally honest, no - I don’t. The things I see on my Facebook and I know I shouldn’t even talk about Facebook because Facebook is not the be-all and end-all but unfortunately that’s where people express their opinions on social media. Even on my Twitter. And like I said even the conversations I’ve had with people, it’s getting, it’s too much now, “there’s too many here”. I don’t like it because my mum was, you could say my mum was an immigrant. She came here to learn but you could say she’s an immigrant. I think, and its harsh to say because I’m a Northerner and I love being North, from up North. I love it, absolutely love it because I think there’s so many good things about being from up North. The people are generally friendlier – and I think once they, the Northern people warm to you, they really love you, they’re really loyal Northern people that’s my personal perception. So I love being from up North. Love it so much. But I feel that we, biggest moaner, the biggest moaners in the world. I feel like we’re always quick to blame others and I think sometimes there’s a bit of laziness because I feel this whole coming here to take our jobs malarkey, it does my head in. Go out and get a job, there’s loads of jobs, absolutely loads of them, it’s not , it’s not a good enough excuse. It’s an awful excuse. This whole self belief thing is , it’s massive and a lot of Northern people don’t have that self belief that you could go out there and be whatever you want to be, stop using people coming over here as an excuse. You’re not gonna wash cars, you’re not gonna work in pea factories. You’re not gonna wake up at four o’clock in the morning and get up at eight on a night. You’re not gonna do them jobs, them rubbish jobs, stop using it as an excuse. Go out there and become someone and that’s why I think that Southerners have got the advantage because they’ve got that mentality in their heads that they’re willing to try new things, they’re willing to go out on the firing line and they’re willing to just work God damn hard to get what they want.
JW: Are you where you want to be?
CO: No - in life? No, not a shadow of doubt, I’m nowhere near where I want to be. Nowhere.
JW: So let’s fly forward in time.
CO: I want to be a successful musician. Music’s everything to me. I was having this conversation with my friend, who I make music with, my mate James –we, we’re not where we want to be. Sometimes we fall into that category where we complain and moan “Oh it’s not, we haven’t, we haven’t got a song on radio yet, national radio or we haven’t got so many Youtube views or we get into the cycle, and at the moment we’re in that cycle at the moment where we complain. But I said to him last night, like we need to stop this, the world’s our oyster, we’re both still young, we’re both make good music, we both are talented. It’s not easy life’s not supposed to be easy, it’s not suppose to be easy road. It’s meant to be a bumpy road. You’re meant to have struggles, you’re meant to have problems. Things don’t always go right. And that’s where people get it wrong. We’ve had some struggles, we’ve had some problems but nothing compared to some other people. So we need to fix up basically and we need to become greats because that’s what I want to be great. So flying forward yes it’s to be a very successful musician, to get to buy my mum a house, to buy my sister a house, to make sure that they’re financially in a good position. To make sure my relatives in Nigeria are. To make sure that the people around me, my friends are all doing well. That, that will, that’s where I want to be in the future and it’s going to happen definitely.
JW: Chiedu thank you very much.
CO: No worries.
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 14 July 2016
JW: It’s always great interviewing somebody that I’ve never met before. I don’t know a great deal about you at all.
CO: Alright.
JW: So you know, just for the sake of the listener tell me your name and let’s get going.
CO: My name is Chiedu Oraka. I’m a musician. I would say I’ve been doing music now for about - properly for about six years.
JW: OK. Let’s come onto that a little bit later. Let’s take you right back.
CO: Right back.
JW: Right back.
CO: Well what do you want to know about Chiedu Oraka?
JW: Your connection with Africa. Are you African born or African descent?
CO: African descent.
JW: So tell me about that ancestry?
CO: OK, well basically as you can tell my name is African, Nigerian name.
JW: Nigerian, right.
CO: Igbo name - my mum Justina Oraka - she’s the one who brought me up. In the north part of the city which we lived, my first house that I ever can remember was down Auckland Avenue. I don’t know if you’re aware of Cranbrook Avenue? - then we moved to Twenty-first Avenue on the estate. I was born at Hedon Road Hospital - 1987. My mum came over to England to study basically.
JW: OK.
CO: At the Hull University.
JW: What was her subject?
CO: Her subject? She’s going to kill me for this. You know what? I don’t even know.
JW: You don’t know?
CO: I think it’s Social Science - I believe - I believe it’s Social Science - I think. I’m not too sure. She’s probably, when she hears this she probably won’t be very happy. But I think it was Social Science. She did her first degree in Nigeria then she did her Masters over here - then she stayed over here basically.
JW: Do you know why she chose to come to the UK?
CO: Because her university were partners with Hull University
JW: OK.
CO: So that was the reason why she came to Hull. Then I’ve got a big sister called Nkolika Oraka. She’s a solicitor. So yeah we just stayed. Nkolika was born here as well. Nkolika had a bit of time in Nigeria so I think she was born here and then they went back and they came back again. So yeah, that’s my Nigerian background.
JW: So tell me something about your early years then? Life at school, and that sort of thing?
CO: Er.
JW: Well let’s be honest. I moved to Hull in 1994.
CO: Yes.
JW: Yes, and it was months and months and months before I found anybody of…
CO: Black origin?
JW: Black origin at all…
CO: At school.
JW: So for you growing up in Hull it must have been…?
CO: I’ve got so many stories. So many stories so that’s why I’m glad you invited me for the interview because I think these experiences need to be heard really. So my experience growing up I was the only Black kid on my street, definitely. On the estate I think there was a family who were mixed race, the Louths, they were like a stone throw away. They lived on Fifth Avenue and then there’s a kid called Gareth Webster as well. So on North Hull Estate really and he was mixed as well, so North Hull Estate I was the only like fully fledged…
JW: Fully fledged Black...?
CO: Fully fledged Black guy. School - I went to Endsleigh Primary School - the only Black kid in the school. Then I went to St Mary’s College Secondary. And…
JW: So being the only Black kid in the school was that a positive for you or a negative?
CO: Both if I’m going to be honest. I think later on there was a girl called Zooander actually and another girl called Krista that came when we was in the Year 5 so for the majority, definitely, I was the only Black kid. Positively, positive sorry - phew, it was just a bit good to be different I think. Negatives I felt like I didn’t really know myself really in the fact that my identity, because I was around white people all the time. My mum always use to remind me that “you’re not the same as these, you need to understand that”. Because there was a lot of racism - not really much in school that much where I lived really. Because I think, and to be honest with you, I look back and it was tough but then I look and think they’d never seen a Black person before so the only Black people they’d seen were on television.
JW: OK, going back to what your mum said to you. What was it about your Black identity that your mum wanted you to understand especially?
CO: I think she always wanted to remind me that I was a Black Nigerian boy and that people would always look at me differently. She said unfortunately that’s just the way the world is or the way your community is. Maybe if I lived in London or cities with more multi - with more races in - more multicultural basically it would have been different but living in a white city, my mum used to always say “you’re not going to be able to get away with the thing that your peers get away with because you’re the one that’s always going to be seen, so you will need to start realising that you’ve got to try harder than them when it comes to applying for stuff or even you need to be if you want to be top of the class you need to work extra harder”, because unfortunately there is stigmas there is perception and there is racism. Basically, so she used to always remind me. She said never forget where you came from ever.
JW: How would your mum have described what it was to be Black Nigerian? What was the identity for her?
CO: My - my mum is just the strongest woman I’ve ever come across in my life. I don’t really know anyone who’s - she’s my role model really - I don’t really know anyone who’s as strong as that woman. She’s been through so much, and I think her - I think if she was going to say what the identity of an African woman is, is just to be a strong independent woman. Not to rely on anyone for anything. And always voice your opinion. Don’t let anyone walk all over you because you always need to know you self worth. So I think that’s what she would have said really.
JW: OK yes. Can I ask where dad is in this?
CO; My dad, I had - I mean to be honest with you, to be realistic with you, I’m going to be honest with you, I don’t really know my dad. The only experience I’ve got of my dad is because I’ve only been to Nigeria twice. I went once when I was about eight and the second time when I was about fourteen. The first time I went, I saw him and my memories is that he lived - my dad was known to be a very wealthy man - looked after everyone around him. The stories I’ve been told is that he had a bit of a nervous breakdown and went a bit doolally basically, and I went to go see him and I actually remember he had a massive land. His house was on a massive land with gates all around his house and I went to go, I remember sitting on his knee and that is, that is the only memory I’ve got of my dad except for pictures, there’s loads of pictures in the house and stuff like that but obviously him and my mum had a disagreement or something happened along the lines really and he’s never been a part of my life so to be honest with you, my mum is my mum and my dad, she’s both.
JW: What were your expectations of Nigeria when you went over there?
CO: That’s a good question - phew, I didn’t really know what to expect really, I mean, I suppose I was sort of like just what a lot of white people would have thought, that it was just poverty and, I’m just going to see kids with flies on their faces and I’m going to see elephants, I’m going to see monkeys in the trees and stuff like that. See it’s an ignorant way of thinking but because I’d never experienced that, I didn’t know. But I got a big culture shock when I got there because it wasn’t like that. My family are - they’re quite well off. They’re OK. They live in the town Onitsha, that’s where my mum was born, that’s where my mum is from. And, and, it wasn’t like that at all, like it was, it was a good experience really. The second time was a bit scary though because I got ill and I went to the Nigerian hospital and they’re nothing like the UK hospitals. That’s why the people in the UK, people who have got the NHS need to be very thankful that they’re in a position like that because Nigerian hospitals are not the same. They are very poverty ridden and I saw some kid die in the bed next to me and that shook me up and to be honest with you my mum always laughs but that’s the reason why I haven’t’ been back because of that experience, when I was, when I was like fourteen because I nearly died in that hospital. I think I ate some dodgy food and it was horrible like, I was ill for days, in the hospital and it just wasn’t nice, and I still remember the smell it was awful but barring that experience, everything was good, everything was good. And now my relative are always telling me to come back it’s different now, you’ll have such a nice time, loads of wonderful girls, blah, blah, blah, so I might need to go.
JW: So your mum instilled in you this idea?
CO: Yeah.
JW: …that it’s good to be different?
CO: Yes, my mum, because I was just a frustrated kid, I mean I was not a very behaved young man. Caused my mum a lot of dramas growing up, because I didn’t know who I was. I was trying to fit in I believe. It’s only till I’d say the last five, five/six years that I have been - like when someone says to me where are you from, I used to always say , “I’m from Hull. I’m from England”. Even though I am from there. I was born down Hedon Road about five miles away from here [Alfred Gelder Street, Hull] where a lot of kids from my generation were born. Lived on North Hull Estate all my life and I always use to say, “I’m British, I’m like - I am African” and I used to shy away from that, being embarrassed that my memories of school is teacher getting my name wrong and then you hear the little sniggers from your friends, the laugh. They are the memories that stick in my mind and really they shouldn’t but growing up being young and wanting to fit in with everyone else when you hear people laugh when the teacher gets your name wrong, it gets embarrassed or I’ll say my name before they can say it so that I don’t have to deal with the embarrassment so, so them sort of experiences used to make me feel bad a little bit. I used to feel like I was an alien and, I didn’t embrace them when I should have done but when you’re young, you don’t embrace things like that. You just try and fit in with everyone else so yes, that, but now I’m so proud of being a Nigerian. So proud of it, of being an African, I love it. But before, I didn’t think I did.
JW: So are there any particular aspects of Nigerian culture, African culture that you try to have in your life now or to share with others?
CO: Just the good vibes. The good vibes like. I just think that Nigerian people are so, they’re happy, they are very happy and they are very positive. God-fearing. Excitable characters, like proper eccentrics. You walk in a room and, not just an - not even just a Nigerian, an African person like they’re always the centre of the party. Like we have got a perception of being angry and moody sometimes and I think we are, sometimes we are but that’s what I take from the African culture, just the good vibes, the positivity. The being so proud of where you come from. Being proud of your family. Doing anything for your family. That’s what I’d like to take from the African culture. Definitely.
JW: You’ve obviously got a really good balance of understanding?
CO: Yes.
JW: The African identity.
CO: Mmmm.
JW: ….as well as the British identity.
CO: And that’s why I got it wrong as a youngster. I didn’t understand and that’s why I meant by my mum use to always remind me that I’m Black and you’re a Nigerian boy. You’re not like your peers because, and I know why she used to remind me of that now. Because that at first I used to get angry when she used to say that, “What do you mean mum, blah, blah, blah”, like because I didn’t understand what she meant. Now as I’ve got older I understand now. And she wasn’t saying it to be nasty to my white friends or to the white culture or British culture. She used to just remind me like remember who you are like the Oraka name means something like just remember like be proud and always try your best.
JW: Let’s talk more widely now about your influences.
CO: Yes.
JW: Obviously you’re influenced by your African descent. You’re a Nigerian.
CO: Mmmm.
JW: So tell me something about your music and the influences?
CO: Growing up like, growing up anyone will tell you like, if you’re from Africa the party culture is a big thing. Like when there’s a party it’s massive. The full street knows about it. Like I remember growing. I don’t think Twenty-first Avenue had ever seen as , like, they must have thought - I don’t know, they must have thought it was the African Nations or something. When my mum use to have parties because so many African people from all over, from Zimbabwe, South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana big parties barbecues like I remember, I remember when I got, christened. Massive parties like my mum used to, she was known for throwing good parties. Music, African music, West Indian music, even British music. UB40 was getting played in my house all the time when it was a party, all the time. And we used to just party till the hours, like the early hours of the morning. So that was my first musical influence probably. And then my big sister, she was heavily into music. She use to like R &B music and rap music. Every year we used to go to Nottinghill Carnival, stay with my auntie in Stoke Newington. We use to always go there. So they were my early influences in music like writing music probably started happening when I was about seventeen, one of my friends called Danny Craft. He started rapping and he got me into it because we use to just mess around in his bedroom and, he use to say “Oh I think you’re good, I think you should like put your thoughts down on paper”, and I was like “Nah, I don’t think, I don’t think it’s for me”. Started doing it and then I went to university, stopped doing it, then I came back and that’s when I started taking it seriously. So yeah.
JW: My shallow and very narrow understanding of rap is often - well rap is really giving a message.
CO: Yeah, it’s always about the message.
JW: So what - what are the key messages you putting across?
CO: Just to be, the key message for me is to be yourself, that’s to tell the viewer or the listener that I’m a Hull boy and I’m proud to be Hull. I’m proud to be from Hull. I’m proud to be an African boy. I’m proud of where I live, the estate that I’ve been brought up on. The clothes that I wear. The things that I’ve been through. They’re the things that I like to put out in my music. I feel like, I’m sort of like a news reporter really.
JW: Mmmm.
CO: I’m just, I’m a product of my environment. I’m telling people about my environment so I’m telling the people things that they might not hear on the news because the news, BBC and ITV they’re corporations so they, they’re not always going to tell the viewer what they, what’s really happening. Me, there’s no holds barred. I’m telling you what really is happening.
JW: Can you give me some examples?
CO: I did a song called I’m From a City. What a bit of people know me for in this city. It got criticised a little bit because the first two verses are quite, people would say quite negative. Because I’m giving people my perception of what I feel it’s like to live in Hull, what people are like in Hull. They might not like what I’m saying but if people are going to be really honest with themselves, it’s the truth. I think Hull can be a negative place to live. There’s a lot of people with negative mindsets, “Oh we can’t do this, we can’t do that”. “Why can’t’ you do this, why can’t you do that? Give me the, give me the answers why?”
JW: Mmmm.
CO: They don’t, I don’t think Hull - I think Hull lacks a lot of self-belief. So the first song, I mean not the first song, the first two verses concentrate on that, that negative energy that we possess in Hull. The third verse was like a celebratory verse of thing that, “Wait a minute we’re from Hull. You should be proud of these things that we’ve got”. Don’t moan and complain that we’ve not given any chances or we’re not given any opportunities. Make some chances, make some opportunities. Look at the things that I’m saying in this verse. The Wilberforce Legacy, we’ve got two rugby clubs, we’re in the top league of rugby league, Hull City are in the Premiership. Hull Fair, the biggest fair in Europe. We’ve got so many, Luke Campbell, the Olympic gold medallist. You know what I mean? There’s so many things that we should be proud of and we should be coming off the back of that positivity and making some more positivity. Be great, we need to be great and a lot of people in this city don’t have that mentality but it will change. Slowly but surely it will change.
JW: Yes. The media has often portrayed…
CO: Yes.
JW: ...Hull as a Northern city in poverty.
CO: Mmmm.
JW: So , I mean you would obviously agree?
CO: Yeah.
JW: Actually the poverty here is more a poverty of aspiration.
CO: Yeah, definitely. That’s what I’m trying to say. No one inspires to be a great. I don’t know if that’s to do with our school system, the kids getting taught, like, I think when you’re going to, into schools sometimes, there’s divisions. I work in education so I know more than most, that, you know there’s divisions. You have the kids who are low achievers, the kids that bob around in the middle, then you have your high achievers. I’m a believer of you should scrap that. I feel that life’s a level, a level playing field. That’s how I feel.
JW: Tell me more then about your employment?
CO: So I work at Andrew Marvell.
JW: Yes.
CO: A school on the east part of the city.
JW: What’s your role there?
CO: I’m an achievement mentor.
JW: Right OK.
CO: I’m attached to Year 11 - my current, my current Year 11 who have just left. I was with them in Year 10s that were there last year. I’m going to be with them in Year 11. And my role basically is, is aimed around pastoral, I don’t know if you’re aware of that word, it’s basically the foundation of the school. It’s what holds the school together, the pastoral care. Because in East Hull there’s a lot of kids, a lot of troubled kids. And a lot of kids, that have got no aspirations. Like we were talking about a couple of minutes ago, where they don’t believe they can achieve anything in their life. Where they’ve been told that they are not going to do anything with their life. Where they’ve got their role models that aren’t very positive. So that’s my main role. I feel at Andrew Marvell is that basically give these kids a good ‘go-to’ person because they might not have anyone at home who they speak to about their problems.
JW: Would you say that as a, a parallel for the whole city really….?
CO: Yes, I, I don’t think…
JW: …it’s a city almost that’s coming out of special measures and now a city of opportunity.
CO: Yes well I hope so, that’s what I really hope happens. I’m yet to see it but I do realise it’s a very tall order. So I know it’s going to take time. But yeah, you could say that it is a city that’s coming out of special measures because it’s a city that I don’t personally believe is a fan of the education system really. I don’t think they believe in it. And I think there’s been a lot of the kids that’s been let down by it so the parents have got a little bit of a reason to be angry with some of the schools in this city. Because I think some of the schools in this city have failed miserably to be honest with you. I do believe that.
JW: Do you have children of your own?
CO: No, no, not yet. I’m twenty-eight. My mum is always banging on saying that you need to bring some children into this earth but right now I don’t think is the right time.
JW: How important do you think – your Nigerian background will be to your children…?
CO: Massive.
JW: ...if you have children?
CO: Massive. Huge, huge because my mum was quite strict , quite firm but she was very loving as well. You need that balance. It’s a very important balance. My mum was very, my mum. Education is everything to my mum. Like she’s got a degree, a Masters, my sister’s a solicitor. I qualified in Sports Development and coaching – so it was very important for her to instil education is everything – and it’s not everything though that’s why I disagree with her sometimes. Because it’s not everything . I think life experience is everything. And I’ve got a lot of them. I got them both. I’ve got education and I’ve got life experiences so I’m happy really. I’ve got a good foundation. My mum gave me a good - a fantastic foundation so but, going back to your question, yeah, the African, the African side of me will be definitely instilled in my children. Has to be. My mum wouldn’t even, my mum wouldn’t even have it any other way. It would have to happen.
JW: I’ve got two teenage sons myself. Obviously we’ve been through the referendum.
CO: Oh yeah.
JW: We’ve voted leave haven’t we? My sons are really well travelled, far better travelled than I am.
CO: Oh right, that’s great.
JW: So there’s a general sense amongst young people I feel – that young people look to themselves not just as English, just British but perhaps European, Place themselves more widely. To what extend do you think geographical boundaries still exist?
CO: Yeah, I do.
JW: You do?
CO: I feel, I mean I’ve had so many debates with my friends about this referendum. And even debates with teachers at school – and you have to listen to everyone’s opinion don’t you? I mean when you have an argument that’s what it’s about. And I think people would be lying if they said that this referendum wasn’t’ decided on immigration which pains me really. It pains, and this is why I feel this city is a little bit far behind especially only judging by the things I’ve seen on Facebook and the things I’ve seen in the community when I’ve gone to the shops and had conversations with my neighbours and stuff like that. They’re basing it on immigration. They’re basing it on people coming here and taking which I think is wrong really. So I think that we are a bit for, this city especially are far behind because if you really think that other cultures are here only to take, and you’re not willing to accept other cultures, then really why were we awarded the City of Culture?
JW: Is the city no longer reflecting the ethos, the values of Wilberforce? Of freedom and equality?
CO: No, I don’t think the city is reflecting that if I’m going to be honest. If I want to be brutally honest, no - I don’t. The things I see on my Facebook and I know I shouldn’t even talk about Facebook because Facebook is not the be-all and end-all but unfortunately that’s where people express their opinions on social media. Even on my Twitter. And like I said even the conversations I’ve had with people, it’s getting, it’s too much now, “there’s too many here”. I don’t like it because my mum was, you could say my mum was an immigrant. She came here to learn but you could say she’s an immigrant. I think, and its harsh to say because I’m a Northerner and I love being North, from up North. I love it, absolutely love it because I think there’s so many good things about being from up North. The people are generally friendlier – and I think once they, the Northern people warm to you, they really love you, they’re really loyal Northern people that’s my personal perception. So I love being from up North. Love it so much. But I feel that we, biggest moaner, the biggest moaners in the world. I feel like we’re always quick to blame others and I think sometimes there’s a bit of laziness because I feel this whole coming here to take our jobs malarkey, it does my head in. Go out and get a job, there’s loads of jobs, absolutely loads of them, it’s not , it’s not a good enough excuse. It’s an awful excuse. This whole self belief thing is , it’s massive and a lot of Northern people don’t have that self belief that you could go out there and be whatever you want to be, stop using people coming over here as an excuse. You’re not gonna wash cars, you’re not gonna work in pea factories. You’re not gonna wake up at four o’clock in the morning and get up at eight on a night. You’re not gonna do them jobs, them rubbish jobs, stop using it as an excuse. Go out there and become someone and that’s why I think that Southerners have got the advantage because they’ve got that mentality in their heads that they’re willing to try new things, they’re willing to go out on the firing line and they’re willing to just work God damn hard to get what they want.
JW: Are you where you want to be?
CO: No - in life? No, not a shadow of doubt, I’m nowhere near where I want to be. Nowhere.
JW: So let’s fly forward in time.
CO: I want to be a successful musician. Music’s everything to me. I was having this conversation with my friend, who I make music with, my mate James –we, we’re not where we want to be. Sometimes we fall into that category where we complain and moan “Oh it’s not, we haven’t, we haven’t got a song on radio yet, national radio or we haven’t got so many Youtube views or we get into the cycle, and at the moment we’re in that cycle at the moment where we complain. But I said to him last night, like we need to stop this, the world’s our oyster, we’re both still young, we’re both make good music, we both are talented. It’s not easy life’s not supposed to be easy, it’s not suppose to be easy road. It’s meant to be a bumpy road. You’re meant to have struggles, you’re meant to have problems. Things don’t always go right. And that’s where people get it wrong. We’ve had some struggles, we’ve had some problems but nothing compared to some other people. So we need to fix up basically and we need to become greats because that’s what I want to be great. So flying forward yes it’s to be a very successful musician, to get to buy my mum a house, to buy my sister a house, to make sure that they’re financially in a good position. To make sure my relatives in Nigeria are. To make sure that the people around me, my friends are all doing well. That, that will, that’s where I want to be in the future and it’s going to happen definitely.
JW: Chiedu thank you very much.
CO: No worries.