Siddi MajuSiddi Maju was born in Sierra Leone in the 1970s. He has visited Hull several times following his first visit in 2006 and has very recently moved to Hull after many years of living in Liverpool. He compares the similarities between the two port cities and their links with slavery. Siddi gives a background on certain elements of African history with particular focus on African seamen and their families in both Liverpool and Hull.
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Transcription: Siddi Maju Interview
Interview with Siddi Maju
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 25 Aug 2016
JW: So I guessed this morning – as you only recently arrived - arrived in Hull – a week or so ago?
SM: Yeah
JW: But - you have known the city for quite some time?
SM: Yeah.
JW: So let’s just for the benefit of the listener, if you could introduce yourself to the tape that would be great.
SM: Yeah, my name is Siddi Maju originally from Sierra Leone and a district called Kono but I’ve also lived in Freetown which is the twin city of Hull.
JW: Indeed. Yeah. So how long ago – when were you born?
SM: I was born in the 70s – 1974.
JW: 1974?
SM: Yeah.
JW: Well, right, OK. What are your earliest memories then, your very earliest memories?
SM: In Sierra Leone or in Hull or - ?
JW: In Sierra Leone
SM: Well, because I live in the diamond area - that was a very interesting - where you if there’s a – where if – during the rainy season you could walk on the street and there’s a chance you will find a diamond and this - this city was very influential to the British at that time because you know the British were looking for - wealth and when they discovered diamonds in Sierra Leone in 1930s. – that area was highly populated with people from all - from all nations of the world, from Belgium, from England - that’s the type of thing I enjoy people from different countries, Ghana, Gambia, Nigeria, Mali, it’s like the whole world was there, it was like a melting pot. That’s what I enjoyed about the – the district I’m from, though now I prefer to say now that it’s a city, because it’s official for the district to become a city that I’m very passionate about the district I’m from.
JW: Tell me about family life.
SM: Well, family life, I’m from a polygamist home where my Dad had - four wives, so that’s a challenge because I went to a western style school. I didn’t go to a Muslim school I went to an Anglican and a Methodist school, so that was really interesting.
JW: Hmm, indeed.
SM: And most of my friends I went to school with are not in polygamist homes, so it was fascinating when I’m explaining about the challenges and some of the advantages of being in a polygamist home also.
JW: Well let’s expand on that a little bit more, I’m quite fascinated by that, you were living in a family were –
SM: Yeah.
JW: Your father’s got more than one wife?
SM: Yeah.
JW: Did you have much contact - with children from the other wives or -?
SM: - Yeah, I just see as my brothers and sister as there’s not much difference –
JW: Yes
SM: Yes - there’s politics in every home maybe even if it’s just – they ones it’s not a polygamist home. There’s always politics in the house not just –because - it’s polygamist home. I know that with mother, father and children –
JW: Yes
S M: You know even in the Bible we have all them stories with Esther and Esau, you know, Cain and Abel and all that. Yes there’s always politics in the family you know that yourself you know that yourself.
JW: Hmm.
SM: So it’s nothing to do with us as a polygamist home.
JW: Hmm.
SM: But it was fascinating though – you always have people around you and – the mothers look after each other and you don’t need all this babysitting thing because there’s enough people around and probably if my mum’s here, the other wives will be also cooking and, so - the advantages there.
JW: Have you kept in touch? or – I mean –
SM: Yeah regularly. I speak to all my family members – especially – in - that type of family, this is male dominated though the women carry, carry the family no matter what you say – they – the man is the bread winner but the women and the wives does a lot of work in keeping the house safe and in a peaceful atmosphere.
JW: So, what about –work - trade?
SM: -Eh-.
JW: What were your family involved with?
SM: Well – well my dad was a – business man – he started with diamond and at that time there was a lot of illicit mining going on - because - the companies took up the whole land and the people said what about us. So some people were doing illicit mining. Many people in the Kono district where involved with illicit mining. Even the chiefs sold land to the companies – were also engaged in their private mining and stuff like that. I think, my father find a diamond which was two leones at that time. That would, should have been around £2 - in the 60s. I think £2 was a lot of money, 60s or 70s at that time the value of £2 in the 60s. So he started trading with that money in a restaurant and have a farm also and later become a very successful business man owning like four petrol stations, gas stations and had a shop in the city, Freetown. He has done well and he used to come to London to see his doctor so – because he was also diabetic like myself.
JW: So what were your - father’s expectations for you?
SM: Well – my father because he’s a business man who did not have formal education but I believe he’s more successful than me. I don’t think I’ll be able to compete with a man like that, because I even struggle to manage the one wife and he was telling me, “So you can’t even manage the one woman so I had four”. So that’s a competition in itself that he understand. He said “I didn’t have the formal education but I paid for your school fees” and he looked after me and then the whole family, because in Africa if you are more successful you look after all children, your brother’s, your uncles’, your aunties’ - He was the – the key player in the whole family like, and when we say family it’s not just - his wife and his kids, his brother’s kids and stuff like that and he was a very generous man, he did well for himself to be honest and we’re still enjoying that legacy because he has a few houses which are still used to collect rent and rent them out and the family is benefiting from them. I don’t think I’ll compete with that man.
JW: So tell me something - about your journey then of how you or what, why did you decide to leave Africa?
SM: Well - the war in Sierra Leone is – is – not a war that is heeded as you know. - blood diamonds. So the region I’m from was really hit hard because of the diamonds and – Charles Taylor who, who was a catalyst to the war in Sierra Leone because it was a spill over from Liberia a neighbouring countries which have similar history, Liberia which is more of the – the American Freetown because it was the same history – freed and loyalist and enslaved Africans who were probably already African-Americans, who were brought to Monrovia - so that was actually copied from what Wilberforce and Co and other humanitarians did for Freetown. It’s a similar strategy because Americans wanted to bring – United States wanted to bring - their own free and enslaved, freed and enslaved Africans to Freetown. They said “No, you have to find your place you know rivality [sic] between two big powers at that time” So they end up having Liberia did the same thing.
JW: So you left Africa when?
SM: Yeah, during the war in the 2000 the war had kick off and it was – calming down and at that time so I decided to – well it was not safe anymore to be in Sierra Leone. I went to neighbouring country Guinea, then from Guinea I have to fly into the United Kingdom. Then – I sought my asylum at that time and, and they know about our problem because the British I think one of the Queen’s regiment was there so they were very aware and – Tony Blair got it right. I know he got it wrong in Iraq but to be honest they step in at the right time and the people of Sierra Leone wanted peace. We have a bit of peace now and - we are progressing but there are a lot of challenges in Sierra Leone at the moment as you know. So that’s why I ended up here and the story is also I was asked to come to Hull because – When I came to London I did not like London, it’s too fast, so I had a friend in Liverpool, I’m a Liverpool FC fan so I thought well that, that, will be the right city so I went there and the Home Office was telling me “now you have to come to Hull”. I said, “No”, and on the night I was supposed to come I saw on television and Hull was on having a bad press from a comedian, it looks very much Asian Iranian guy. He was talking about – a lot of barriers in Hull for refugees and immigrants. Even though –Hull had a long history of having - ethnic minority and black people, especially African seamen and seamen from other parts of the world but I think that died out when the - when the industry collapsed- the shipping industry collapsed so I think the legacy’s not much here compared to Liverpool because Liverpool was a bigger port and more thriving port than Hull. So- he was showing all that differences on the TV that then I said, “No, I’m not coming here.” So, but - I came in 2006 then I understand it’s the twin city of Freetown.
I say, wow, and then I understand Wilberforce was from here and I’m a big fan of the emancipation because in Sierra Leone Freetown is part of this whole curriculum from primary school to learn about – slavery, the emancipation of Wilberforce, all of them who were involved Thomas Peters. So it was fascinating to know Wilberforce is from here. And we have a town or a village in Sierra Leone and Freetown named after Wilberforce, Wilberforce village and some of my family members live there. So it gives me the appetite to say wow it’s not a bad a bad city, so in 2007 I came. I bought my own ticket because there was a lecture about – William Wilberforce associated with the Acts 200 years of the Act of the Abolition when it was passed 1807 to 2007. So, and the speaker was an Honourable he was the Prime Minister at that time of Barbados he was Arthur Owen.
I met with a gentleman in the train who was coming to - Hull and he get lost so I said OK I will help you as I’m coming to Hull so on our way he was talking that he was associated with the President of his – and he need some help so I helped him I helped him to get a hotel and in a guest house where I was so by he night time he was tired so I said I’m going out just to see the city what’s up. So I got all the information that he needed. So he was very please and he ask the contingent that I should be part of the VIP contingent so I was sitting in the coach with Wilberforce great grandson who is also called William Wilberforce. We spoke a lot and I was surprised that he did not know – the original Wilberforce had a town named after him in Freetown. He did not know that they had a hall named after William Wilberforce. I was so shocked. I said how come he doesn’t know about all this stuff. And he promised that he would one day visit Freetown to see all this stuff. And the lecture was very interesting, I enjoyed it and so John Prescott was putting in his own defence and about the emancipation that they don’t benefit much from it which was not true – and – Arthur Owens was saying that what made this country great partly was the money from slavery which – was true also because even in the churches were involved. Even the royal family was involved. A lot of hidden stuff from his speech come out which I learnt from which was very fascinating.
JW: Good, good so do you think - children in school are being told the real story of Wilberforce and what the UK, what England was like beforehand.
SM: Well you have to search thoroughly. I don’t think the school curriculum wanted some of this information because if you have glorified people who have not done things rightly is the 1800s and 1900s so now you want to actually change the story, it’s difficult especially with some authors were very bias when they were writing the slavery things. But the good thing also about England’s participation in – in slavery and emancipation, it is not the British who started slavery, it was the Spanish and that part of the world who started, when Christopher Columbus went to the Caribbean and I don’t know whether he was looking at it until he end up in the Caribbean and he said that he discovered. And - part of that story if you dig deep you will see that even him, he lied a lot, he had to make people swear not to say things. Even the guy who was the captain in the ship according to the story that I’ve read who was a Black moors, you know they were the people who conquered Spain early 800 and all that, so they have been there before him. So Columbus came to the King and Queen and he told them that these people they meet they were very humble, they can be good Christians and they can be easily enslaved because he was a business man who wanted percentage so it was fascinating how the story now has to be changed. Columbus is not a popular person anymore in the Caribbean and Africa because we understand the history they’ve glorified Columbus in America they celebrate some of his special day because as the founder of America whatever but not most of the conscious Africans and the people from the diaspora don’t want to celebrate Christopher Columbus. I think the statue was knocked down in Liverpool. So a lot of reggae artists like Bob Marley, Burning Spear were singing in their song Christopher Columbus, ‘Damn Nasty Liar’. Do you know what I mean? So people are becoming conscious so how can they change that history overnight in the schools is going to be a difficult one.
JW: It’s going to be…
SM: So the Black history should have been a part of this thing not actually in very aggressive but in a very diplomatic way. Trying to change that story and tell how it is the fact and we learn from it so it won’t happen again because even today modern slavery still happening in different form even with the bankers putting people in debt for, so modern slavery still – I think the school should do more to help teach the fact about the story and how we can look at the past and learn to shape the future so we live in harmony because that’s the main thing. It’s not about all the slavers. People start to quarrel about the past, it’s about to learn from it and we move forward because we live now – in a multicultural Britain. Where a man with a turban from India he says I’m British and he sound more British, you understand where I’m coming from. And the Muslim also say I’m a British and proud to be – a British at the same time as he’s given the freedom of worship in the law here you allowed to worship freely as long as you don’t disturb anybody or those nuisance who are time bombs who are killing in the name of Islam. They are not a good example. But I believe they are in the minority so we have to work hard to make sure they don’t win, win, win with the people who believe in a peaceful way of worshipping and at the same time proud to be British. That’s how I see it.
JW: So – what projects are you going to be involved with…
SM: So – the history of the African seamen is one history I don’t think they have touched on. They have done a lot on, because I went to the museum many times, they touch more on the Scandinavian seamen, and they use to go to Liverpool for, Liverpool then to the United States because Liverpool was a world seaport at one time so – that’s a good connection between the two cities. What I find out - they did not touch a lot about the African seamen and their local wives because here is the British aspect of it most of them they did not come with their wives so they end up having British wives so it is very important those children who come out of these relationships get the African side of their heritage because if you go now on Google Search and you want to do a family tree. It’s very fascinating family tree, when you get to the African side, there is not much record for them and some of the parent also left so I did a lot of interview around people of mixed heritage in Liverpool. A lot of topics around, some are angry that their parents, fathers have left, others understand why their fathers left because at that time Britain was not too tolerant, they can’t get jobs, they were highly educated, they can’t get jobs so and you know all these barriers some of them have to leave and – some of them also already had a family in Africa before they came here. Some sacrificed, support those families in Africa but we are still here to represent the family they had here. So that was a difficult one. Other people said no, I will sacrifice those who are here, I am going to Africa to look after that family and not many of the children were aware of that, that this parent who were here already had family in Africa but their love here and you know human being, you are in a seaport for three months and you understand.
JW: So are you expecting to uncover many of these stories in Hull as you did in Liverpool?
SM: Well yes. I have got my records here, you see these are all records because the local thing, this gentleman here who is called Daniel Howard Morris from Sierra Leone, he was the secretary of all the United Kuru Association which is the people from Liberia and Sierra Leone, because most of the Liberian Seamen have to come to Sierra Leone because Sierra Leone has a link with Britain where Liberia had a link with America so for them to come to Britain they needed to come to Sierra Leone and the British government they were very aware of how good the Kuru tribe, it’s a tribe which is nearly - everywhere in West Africa from Ivory Coast. Even Didier Drogba is from that tribe even though he’s from Ivory Coast but most of them settled in Liberia probably one of the best seamen from Africa so the British were very aware of that so they created a special, a special – town for them in Freetown called Kroo Town Road and Kroo Bay so to honour them so they give them a piece of land so they become a citizen of Sierra Leone under the commonwealth and so they were able, most of them, were able to come. They were the first seamen in Sierra Leone not even the, the indigenous Sierra Leonians so some of them do live in Hull city and they were members of the Kuru Society or Association in Liverpool. But they chose Liverpool as the headquarters of the seamen, not even London. That’s how powerful it was so some of the names I have found in this book, their addresses you can see them in Hull.
JW: That’s fascinating to see how that is going to progress and develop over the next year or so. It’s great actually that you’ve come to Hull with a real remit of something that you want to pursue.
SM: Yeah
JW: Well that’s fascinating to see how that is going to progress and develop over the next year or so. It’s great actually that you’ve come to Hull with a real remit of something you want to pursue. Let’s go back to yourself, an African now living in the West, in Great Britain, particularly here in Yorkshire, explain to me some of the differences, just one week into living in Hull, that you’ve seen or identified between what you had in Liverpool, a very, very multicultural society over in Liverpool community, and what you’ve experienced so far in Hull.
SM: Well I can see a lot of similarities even the name of streets. In Liverpool I saw Percy Street which is in Liverpool of course, Victoria Street you have it all over the Commonwealth countries, but I’m seeing a lot of similarities even when I go to the dock, the Princes Quay and around the marina I saw all them brown buildings, very similar with Liverpool seaport, very, very similar. And there’s one even, I went to a place called Princes Avenue, I used to live at number 34 Princes Avenue in Liverpool, so when I saw it I was so fascinated, it was my first, second address in Liverpool, 34 Princes Avenue. Even before I came to Liverpool I went to see one of my friends who still lived there because I don’t no longer live in that address. Then I saw the park they have close to Princes Avenue, is it Pearsons Park? Very similar to Princes Park. And the day I went to see the capital city of culture because they were encouraging people to apply for the community grant, when I finished talking about this project then I come out I saw someone from Liverpool, he was sitting there a mixed race lad who is of Liberian heritage whose father’s name is in this book, even when I showed me he said, “Yes, my mom had a copy of this”, then I know his cousin who I took to Gambia because I did a trip during the capital city of culture of 2009 … to take the local lads to see West Africa because if you look at Gambia it was the last country in West Africa to be colonised by Britain. The young people here some of them I’ve been taking to Freetown in some schools and when they came back because I’ve met some of them in some of the local pubs, I say “I’m from Freetown” and one of them say “Oh, our school went to Freetown”. So I can see a lot of similarities here and you know we have Liverpool Street in Freetown and we also have Wilberforce Street in Freetown. You see where I’m coming from? So there’s a lot of similarities with Hull and Liverpool, the only difference is it’s more diverse there than here. When it comes to diversity and you can’t beat that because Liverpool is, Liverpool have the oldest black community in Europe.
JW: If you could - import one piece of African culture to say, to the city of Hull, to East Yorkshire, what would that be?
SM: Well, being a Fulani I’m not using tribe to be divisive I always love that tribal heritage but not to be used because sometimes politicians use it in Africa during elections, to divide the community on tribal lines for elections which I don’t like, because people who used to live next door neighbours, enjoy their neighbourhood in a peaceful and tranquility standard will all be attacked during the elections. We have people who use the tribal, if you know your tribes’ majority you make sure you divide so you get all your tribe voting for you, I don’t like that, but I love that tribal history because that’s what makes Africa diverse. Britain have lost that because you also used to have tribes, the Celts, you know everybody now wants to speak English because that’s what the British enforce on people even in Wales they are losing some of that, I love the tribal part of things because I’m from a Fulani tribe, that’s the type of thing I want to bring here because it’s not, you don’t see a lot of Fulanis out here. Fulanis mostly are in the United States of America, in Britain the Fulanis that came here not long ago most go to France because most of the Fulanis areas are colonised by French speaking countries though Nigeria had a bit of Fulanis but I love to bring the Fulan culture to Hull city which will be a unique one because the Fulani are the largest nomadic tribe in the world, and I went to – is it Beverley, I went to a place called Westwood Pasture, I was fascinated to see those cows because they are the symbol of the Fulani tribe we are hard men, hard men ,we are cattle rearers, and that’s part of our tradition, so it’s something I’d love to link with West Africa and - this city, I know it’s not classed as Hull but its next door neighbour, Beverley, so I enjoy that part of things so I want to bring that alive linking with Africa way of doing our own animal husbandry and cattle rearing because it’s definitely, we still do it the traditional way.
JW: How difficult is it now to get that balance right between being really proud of your heritage but equally integrating into - the community of Hull?
SM: Well, even though I’m from Sierra Leone I’m a Fulani but you can meet a Gambian also who is a Fulani, you can meet a Senegalese who is a Fulani, so that would bring unity because when Europe went to Africa they did not take account of the kingdoms because even Ghana have their own kingdom, the Ashanti that was a tribe, the Ashanti have their kingdom, everybody have their tribal kingdom but they were living harmony even though, do you understand what I mean, except when they are at war with each other because people may have, just like the World War II, World War I, it was a misunderstanding one country and the other they do have that, but they were definitely living in harmony because there was a time when the Mali Empire was one of the greatest empires when they had Mansa Musa bringing all the kingdoms together. First it was in Ghana then a shift to Mali so even being from the Fulani tribe I can work with other tribe because there are some similarities in culture so we can still work together because it’s not about celebrating those wars it’s about celebrating where we live in harmony, so that’s the type of way I want to celebrate and integrate my Fulani tribe with the rest of the other cultures.
JW: Absolutely fascinating chatting to you, you’re the wealth of knowledge that’s up there, there’s a whole lot more that’s got to come out and share with us at some point. That’s really good. Thank you very much.
SM: Thank you.
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 25 Aug 2016
JW: So I guessed this morning – as you only recently arrived - arrived in Hull – a week or so ago?
SM: Yeah
JW: But - you have known the city for quite some time?
SM: Yeah.
JW: So let’s just for the benefit of the listener, if you could introduce yourself to the tape that would be great.
SM: Yeah, my name is Siddi Maju originally from Sierra Leone and a district called Kono but I’ve also lived in Freetown which is the twin city of Hull.
JW: Indeed. Yeah. So how long ago – when were you born?
SM: I was born in the 70s – 1974.
JW: 1974?
SM: Yeah.
JW: Well, right, OK. What are your earliest memories then, your very earliest memories?
SM: In Sierra Leone or in Hull or - ?
JW: In Sierra Leone
SM: Well, because I live in the diamond area - that was a very interesting - where you if there’s a – where if – during the rainy season you could walk on the street and there’s a chance you will find a diamond and this - this city was very influential to the British at that time because you know the British were looking for - wealth and when they discovered diamonds in Sierra Leone in 1930s. – that area was highly populated with people from all - from all nations of the world, from Belgium, from England - that’s the type of thing I enjoy people from different countries, Ghana, Gambia, Nigeria, Mali, it’s like the whole world was there, it was like a melting pot. That’s what I enjoyed about the – the district I’m from, though now I prefer to say now that it’s a city, because it’s official for the district to become a city that I’m very passionate about the district I’m from.
JW: Tell me about family life.
SM: Well, family life, I’m from a polygamist home where my Dad had - four wives, so that’s a challenge because I went to a western style school. I didn’t go to a Muslim school I went to an Anglican and a Methodist school, so that was really interesting.
JW: Hmm, indeed.
SM: And most of my friends I went to school with are not in polygamist homes, so it was fascinating when I’m explaining about the challenges and some of the advantages of being in a polygamist home also.
JW: Well let’s expand on that a little bit more, I’m quite fascinated by that, you were living in a family were –
SM: Yeah.
JW: Your father’s got more than one wife?
SM: Yeah.
JW: Did you have much contact - with children from the other wives or -?
SM: - Yeah, I just see as my brothers and sister as there’s not much difference –
JW: Yes
SM: Yes - there’s politics in every home maybe even if it’s just – they ones it’s not a polygamist home. There’s always politics in the house not just –because - it’s polygamist home. I know that with mother, father and children –
JW: Yes
S M: You know even in the Bible we have all them stories with Esther and Esau, you know, Cain and Abel and all that. Yes there’s always politics in the family you know that yourself you know that yourself.
JW: Hmm.
SM: So it’s nothing to do with us as a polygamist home.
JW: Hmm.
SM: But it was fascinating though – you always have people around you and – the mothers look after each other and you don’t need all this babysitting thing because there’s enough people around and probably if my mum’s here, the other wives will be also cooking and, so - the advantages there.
JW: Have you kept in touch? or – I mean –
SM: Yeah regularly. I speak to all my family members – especially – in - that type of family, this is male dominated though the women carry, carry the family no matter what you say – they – the man is the bread winner but the women and the wives does a lot of work in keeping the house safe and in a peaceful atmosphere.
JW: So, what about –work - trade?
SM: -Eh-.
JW: What were your family involved with?
SM: Well – well my dad was a – business man – he started with diamond and at that time there was a lot of illicit mining going on - because - the companies took up the whole land and the people said what about us. So some people were doing illicit mining. Many people in the Kono district where involved with illicit mining. Even the chiefs sold land to the companies – were also engaged in their private mining and stuff like that. I think, my father find a diamond which was two leones at that time. That would, should have been around £2 - in the 60s. I think £2 was a lot of money, 60s or 70s at that time the value of £2 in the 60s. So he started trading with that money in a restaurant and have a farm also and later become a very successful business man owning like four petrol stations, gas stations and had a shop in the city, Freetown. He has done well and he used to come to London to see his doctor so – because he was also diabetic like myself.
JW: So what were your - father’s expectations for you?
SM: Well – my father because he’s a business man who did not have formal education but I believe he’s more successful than me. I don’t think I’ll be able to compete with a man like that, because I even struggle to manage the one wife and he was telling me, “So you can’t even manage the one woman so I had four”. So that’s a competition in itself that he understand. He said “I didn’t have the formal education but I paid for your school fees” and he looked after me and then the whole family, because in Africa if you are more successful you look after all children, your brother’s, your uncles’, your aunties’ - He was the – the key player in the whole family like, and when we say family it’s not just - his wife and his kids, his brother’s kids and stuff like that and he was a very generous man, he did well for himself to be honest and we’re still enjoying that legacy because he has a few houses which are still used to collect rent and rent them out and the family is benefiting from them. I don’t think I’ll compete with that man.
JW: So tell me something - about your journey then of how you or what, why did you decide to leave Africa?
SM: Well - the war in Sierra Leone is – is – not a war that is heeded as you know. - blood diamonds. So the region I’m from was really hit hard because of the diamonds and – Charles Taylor who, who was a catalyst to the war in Sierra Leone because it was a spill over from Liberia a neighbouring countries which have similar history, Liberia which is more of the – the American Freetown because it was the same history – freed and loyalist and enslaved Africans who were probably already African-Americans, who were brought to Monrovia - so that was actually copied from what Wilberforce and Co and other humanitarians did for Freetown. It’s a similar strategy because Americans wanted to bring – United States wanted to bring - their own free and enslaved, freed and enslaved Africans to Freetown. They said “No, you have to find your place you know rivality [sic] between two big powers at that time” So they end up having Liberia did the same thing.
JW: So you left Africa when?
SM: Yeah, during the war in the 2000 the war had kick off and it was – calming down and at that time so I decided to – well it was not safe anymore to be in Sierra Leone. I went to neighbouring country Guinea, then from Guinea I have to fly into the United Kingdom. Then – I sought my asylum at that time and, and they know about our problem because the British I think one of the Queen’s regiment was there so they were very aware and – Tony Blair got it right. I know he got it wrong in Iraq but to be honest they step in at the right time and the people of Sierra Leone wanted peace. We have a bit of peace now and - we are progressing but there are a lot of challenges in Sierra Leone at the moment as you know. So that’s why I ended up here and the story is also I was asked to come to Hull because – When I came to London I did not like London, it’s too fast, so I had a friend in Liverpool, I’m a Liverpool FC fan so I thought well that, that, will be the right city so I went there and the Home Office was telling me “now you have to come to Hull”. I said, “No”, and on the night I was supposed to come I saw on television and Hull was on having a bad press from a comedian, it looks very much Asian Iranian guy. He was talking about – a lot of barriers in Hull for refugees and immigrants. Even though –Hull had a long history of having - ethnic minority and black people, especially African seamen and seamen from other parts of the world but I think that died out when the - when the industry collapsed- the shipping industry collapsed so I think the legacy’s not much here compared to Liverpool because Liverpool was a bigger port and more thriving port than Hull. So- he was showing all that differences on the TV that then I said, “No, I’m not coming here.” So, but - I came in 2006 then I understand it’s the twin city of Freetown.
I say, wow, and then I understand Wilberforce was from here and I’m a big fan of the emancipation because in Sierra Leone Freetown is part of this whole curriculum from primary school to learn about – slavery, the emancipation of Wilberforce, all of them who were involved Thomas Peters. So it was fascinating to know Wilberforce is from here. And we have a town or a village in Sierra Leone and Freetown named after Wilberforce, Wilberforce village and some of my family members live there. So it gives me the appetite to say wow it’s not a bad a bad city, so in 2007 I came. I bought my own ticket because there was a lecture about – William Wilberforce associated with the Acts 200 years of the Act of the Abolition when it was passed 1807 to 2007. So, and the speaker was an Honourable he was the Prime Minister at that time of Barbados he was Arthur Owen.
I met with a gentleman in the train who was coming to - Hull and he get lost so I said OK I will help you as I’m coming to Hull so on our way he was talking that he was associated with the President of his – and he need some help so I helped him I helped him to get a hotel and in a guest house where I was so by he night time he was tired so I said I’m going out just to see the city what’s up. So I got all the information that he needed. So he was very please and he ask the contingent that I should be part of the VIP contingent so I was sitting in the coach with Wilberforce great grandson who is also called William Wilberforce. We spoke a lot and I was surprised that he did not know – the original Wilberforce had a town named after him in Freetown. He did not know that they had a hall named after William Wilberforce. I was so shocked. I said how come he doesn’t know about all this stuff. And he promised that he would one day visit Freetown to see all this stuff. And the lecture was very interesting, I enjoyed it and so John Prescott was putting in his own defence and about the emancipation that they don’t benefit much from it which was not true – and – Arthur Owens was saying that what made this country great partly was the money from slavery which – was true also because even in the churches were involved. Even the royal family was involved. A lot of hidden stuff from his speech come out which I learnt from which was very fascinating.
JW: Good, good so do you think - children in school are being told the real story of Wilberforce and what the UK, what England was like beforehand.
SM: Well you have to search thoroughly. I don’t think the school curriculum wanted some of this information because if you have glorified people who have not done things rightly is the 1800s and 1900s so now you want to actually change the story, it’s difficult especially with some authors were very bias when they were writing the slavery things. But the good thing also about England’s participation in – in slavery and emancipation, it is not the British who started slavery, it was the Spanish and that part of the world who started, when Christopher Columbus went to the Caribbean and I don’t know whether he was looking at it until he end up in the Caribbean and he said that he discovered. And - part of that story if you dig deep you will see that even him, he lied a lot, he had to make people swear not to say things. Even the guy who was the captain in the ship according to the story that I’ve read who was a Black moors, you know they were the people who conquered Spain early 800 and all that, so they have been there before him. So Columbus came to the King and Queen and he told them that these people they meet they were very humble, they can be good Christians and they can be easily enslaved because he was a business man who wanted percentage so it was fascinating how the story now has to be changed. Columbus is not a popular person anymore in the Caribbean and Africa because we understand the history they’ve glorified Columbus in America they celebrate some of his special day because as the founder of America whatever but not most of the conscious Africans and the people from the diaspora don’t want to celebrate Christopher Columbus. I think the statue was knocked down in Liverpool. So a lot of reggae artists like Bob Marley, Burning Spear were singing in their song Christopher Columbus, ‘Damn Nasty Liar’. Do you know what I mean? So people are becoming conscious so how can they change that history overnight in the schools is going to be a difficult one.
JW: It’s going to be…
SM: So the Black history should have been a part of this thing not actually in very aggressive but in a very diplomatic way. Trying to change that story and tell how it is the fact and we learn from it so it won’t happen again because even today modern slavery still happening in different form even with the bankers putting people in debt for, so modern slavery still – I think the school should do more to help teach the fact about the story and how we can look at the past and learn to shape the future so we live in harmony because that’s the main thing. It’s not about all the slavers. People start to quarrel about the past, it’s about to learn from it and we move forward because we live now – in a multicultural Britain. Where a man with a turban from India he says I’m British and he sound more British, you understand where I’m coming from. And the Muslim also say I’m a British and proud to be – a British at the same time as he’s given the freedom of worship in the law here you allowed to worship freely as long as you don’t disturb anybody or those nuisance who are time bombs who are killing in the name of Islam. They are not a good example. But I believe they are in the minority so we have to work hard to make sure they don’t win, win, win with the people who believe in a peaceful way of worshipping and at the same time proud to be British. That’s how I see it.
JW: So – what projects are you going to be involved with…
SM: So – the history of the African seamen is one history I don’t think they have touched on. They have done a lot on, because I went to the museum many times, they touch more on the Scandinavian seamen, and they use to go to Liverpool for, Liverpool then to the United States because Liverpool was a world seaport at one time so – that’s a good connection between the two cities. What I find out - they did not touch a lot about the African seamen and their local wives because here is the British aspect of it most of them they did not come with their wives so they end up having British wives so it is very important those children who come out of these relationships get the African side of their heritage because if you go now on Google Search and you want to do a family tree. It’s very fascinating family tree, when you get to the African side, there is not much record for them and some of the parent also left so I did a lot of interview around people of mixed heritage in Liverpool. A lot of topics around, some are angry that their parents, fathers have left, others understand why their fathers left because at that time Britain was not too tolerant, they can’t get jobs, they were highly educated, they can’t get jobs so and you know all these barriers some of them have to leave and – some of them also already had a family in Africa before they came here. Some sacrificed, support those families in Africa but we are still here to represent the family they had here. So that was a difficult one. Other people said no, I will sacrifice those who are here, I am going to Africa to look after that family and not many of the children were aware of that, that this parent who were here already had family in Africa but their love here and you know human being, you are in a seaport for three months and you understand.
JW: So are you expecting to uncover many of these stories in Hull as you did in Liverpool?
SM: Well yes. I have got my records here, you see these are all records because the local thing, this gentleman here who is called Daniel Howard Morris from Sierra Leone, he was the secretary of all the United Kuru Association which is the people from Liberia and Sierra Leone, because most of the Liberian Seamen have to come to Sierra Leone because Sierra Leone has a link with Britain where Liberia had a link with America so for them to come to Britain they needed to come to Sierra Leone and the British government they were very aware of how good the Kuru tribe, it’s a tribe which is nearly - everywhere in West Africa from Ivory Coast. Even Didier Drogba is from that tribe even though he’s from Ivory Coast but most of them settled in Liberia probably one of the best seamen from Africa so the British were very aware of that so they created a special, a special – town for them in Freetown called Kroo Town Road and Kroo Bay so to honour them so they give them a piece of land so they become a citizen of Sierra Leone under the commonwealth and so they were able, most of them, were able to come. They were the first seamen in Sierra Leone not even the, the indigenous Sierra Leonians so some of them do live in Hull city and they were members of the Kuru Society or Association in Liverpool. But they chose Liverpool as the headquarters of the seamen, not even London. That’s how powerful it was so some of the names I have found in this book, their addresses you can see them in Hull.
JW: That’s fascinating to see how that is going to progress and develop over the next year or so. It’s great actually that you’ve come to Hull with a real remit of something that you want to pursue.
SM: Yeah
JW: Well that’s fascinating to see how that is going to progress and develop over the next year or so. It’s great actually that you’ve come to Hull with a real remit of something you want to pursue. Let’s go back to yourself, an African now living in the West, in Great Britain, particularly here in Yorkshire, explain to me some of the differences, just one week into living in Hull, that you’ve seen or identified between what you had in Liverpool, a very, very multicultural society over in Liverpool community, and what you’ve experienced so far in Hull.
SM: Well I can see a lot of similarities even the name of streets. In Liverpool I saw Percy Street which is in Liverpool of course, Victoria Street you have it all over the Commonwealth countries, but I’m seeing a lot of similarities even when I go to the dock, the Princes Quay and around the marina I saw all them brown buildings, very similar with Liverpool seaport, very, very similar. And there’s one even, I went to a place called Princes Avenue, I used to live at number 34 Princes Avenue in Liverpool, so when I saw it I was so fascinated, it was my first, second address in Liverpool, 34 Princes Avenue. Even before I came to Liverpool I went to see one of my friends who still lived there because I don’t no longer live in that address. Then I saw the park they have close to Princes Avenue, is it Pearsons Park? Very similar to Princes Park. And the day I went to see the capital city of culture because they were encouraging people to apply for the community grant, when I finished talking about this project then I come out I saw someone from Liverpool, he was sitting there a mixed race lad who is of Liberian heritage whose father’s name is in this book, even when I showed me he said, “Yes, my mom had a copy of this”, then I know his cousin who I took to Gambia because I did a trip during the capital city of culture of 2009 … to take the local lads to see West Africa because if you look at Gambia it was the last country in West Africa to be colonised by Britain. The young people here some of them I’ve been taking to Freetown in some schools and when they came back because I’ve met some of them in some of the local pubs, I say “I’m from Freetown” and one of them say “Oh, our school went to Freetown”. So I can see a lot of similarities here and you know we have Liverpool Street in Freetown and we also have Wilberforce Street in Freetown. You see where I’m coming from? So there’s a lot of similarities with Hull and Liverpool, the only difference is it’s more diverse there than here. When it comes to diversity and you can’t beat that because Liverpool is, Liverpool have the oldest black community in Europe.
JW: If you could - import one piece of African culture to say, to the city of Hull, to East Yorkshire, what would that be?
SM: Well, being a Fulani I’m not using tribe to be divisive I always love that tribal heritage but not to be used because sometimes politicians use it in Africa during elections, to divide the community on tribal lines for elections which I don’t like, because people who used to live next door neighbours, enjoy their neighbourhood in a peaceful and tranquility standard will all be attacked during the elections. We have people who use the tribal, if you know your tribes’ majority you make sure you divide so you get all your tribe voting for you, I don’t like that, but I love that tribal history because that’s what makes Africa diverse. Britain have lost that because you also used to have tribes, the Celts, you know everybody now wants to speak English because that’s what the British enforce on people even in Wales they are losing some of that, I love the tribal part of things because I’m from a Fulani tribe, that’s the type of thing I want to bring here because it’s not, you don’t see a lot of Fulanis out here. Fulanis mostly are in the United States of America, in Britain the Fulanis that came here not long ago most go to France because most of the Fulanis areas are colonised by French speaking countries though Nigeria had a bit of Fulanis but I love to bring the Fulan culture to Hull city which will be a unique one because the Fulani are the largest nomadic tribe in the world, and I went to – is it Beverley, I went to a place called Westwood Pasture, I was fascinated to see those cows because they are the symbol of the Fulani tribe we are hard men, hard men ,we are cattle rearers, and that’s part of our tradition, so it’s something I’d love to link with West Africa and - this city, I know it’s not classed as Hull but its next door neighbour, Beverley, so I enjoy that part of things so I want to bring that alive linking with Africa way of doing our own animal husbandry and cattle rearing because it’s definitely, we still do it the traditional way.
JW: How difficult is it now to get that balance right between being really proud of your heritage but equally integrating into - the community of Hull?
SM: Well, even though I’m from Sierra Leone I’m a Fulani but you can meet a Gambian also who is a Fulani, you can meet a Senegalese who is a Fulani, so that would bring unity because when Europe went to Africa they did not take account of the kingdoms because even Ghana have their own kingdom, the Ashanti that was a tribe, the Ashanti have their kingdom, everybody have their tribal kingdom but they were living harmony even though, do you understand what I mean, except when they are at war with each other because people may have, just like the World War II, World War I, it was a misunderstanding one country and the other they do have that, but they were definitely living in harmony because there was a time when the Mali Empire was one of the greatest empires when they had Mansa Musa bringing all the kingdoms together. First it was in Ghana then a shift to Mali so even being from the Fulani tribe I can work with other tribe because there are some similarities in culture so we can still work together because it’s not about celebrating those wars it’s about celebrating where we live in harmony, so that’s the type of way I want to celebrate and integrate my Fulani tribe with the rest of the other cultures.
JW: Absolutely fascinating chatting to you, you’re the wealth of knowledge that’s up there, there’s a whole lot more that’s got to come out and share with us at some point. That’s really good. Thank you very much.
SM: Thank you.