Asuquo 'Zook' Ema
Zook was born in Beverley and is of dual Nigerian and English heritage from parents who met at Hull University. He went to Nigeria with his parents at the age of one where unbeknown to him his early years were filled with the drama of being in the middle of the Biafran War. His family experienced profound loss after his father was killed through mistaken identity. They returned to Hull when he was 5 years old when life became more ordinary until he became a semi-professional rugby player at age 18, playing for Hull KR until 1994. As a player his career was curtailed by injuries but his second career in the fire service spanned some 30 years. He has inspired many fans as well as his own children who now want to follow in his footsteps.
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Transcription: Asuquo 'Zook' Ema Interview
Interview with Asuquo 'Zook' Ema
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 2017
JW: Thanks for coming in. Nice to meet you.
AE: And you Jerome.
JW: Can you introduce yourself first and foremost, tell the listener who you are.
AE: Right my name is Asuquo Ema, to my friends known as Zook.
JW: And - the essential question really is, what is your connection to, to Africa?
AE: My father was Nigerian, he came over obviously and met my mother who was white from down south Otham in Kent – met at Hull University in - 1962 and obviously fell in love and in 1963 I was the product of that.
JW: OK so in 1963.
AE: I was born, yeah.
JW: Born whereabouts?
AE: Beverley
JW: Born in Beverley
AE: Born in Beverley, yes
JW: In the East Riding
AE: They were still, my father was still here studying over here, he was a history teacher, mother was a nurse, midwife. And – in 1964 I think we went back to Nigeria. And my father went back to teach, it was part of his promise, obviously they’d paid the fund to come over, part of his promise was to go back to Calabar in Nigeria to teach.
JW: So this is interesting. Born in the UK in Beverley and at about a year old went back to Nigeria.
AE: Yes that’s right yes.
JW: So your earliest memories was what?
AE: - phuh, flipping heck. My earliest memories - Can’t remember a lot really. I remember a lot from Nigeria, not nice things to be fair – because obviously the Biafran war broke out and - the only memories I have now of Nigeria unfortunately are of – airplanes going overhead and striking the houses and there were bullets and us having to go in outdoor shelters which were covered with corrugated steel and then another image I remember is going into the - hospital where mum worked and wondering why all the patients were laid under the bed, they were laid under the beds the mattresses with the drips still up and obviously that was for the same reason, people were firing bullets and this that and the other and mum got injured. And I always remember distinctly that she had a red arm I was wondering what was, and I know now that a bullet hit her, went through her shoulder and came out of her forearm so she just wrapped it and she carried on with her duties and that is …and obviously the next, the only other memory I remember from Nigeria is us all in a jeep with soldiers; me, my mum and my brother was born there and she was pregnant with my sister and we were being transported somewhere. They are my only memories of Nigeria. Then only other one was of the tribal dancers with them coming down the street and frightening me to death, that’s the only other memory I have of Nigeria. We, I came back mind you when I was 5 and my brother would have been one.
JW: So you wouldn’t really have understood the fact that you…
AE: No…
JW: … were growing up in a war zone…
AE: …no that’s right
JW: And that that was not the norm
AE: No. I don’t really remember it. I mean I’m not scared by the memories at all it’s just that they are very vivid that’s all. But – obviously I didn’t really know my father, we lost him allegedly he went to visit his family in Akwa Ibom and never came back. And when mother came back to England she made a few enquiries and this that and the other and solicitors were involved and the alleged theory is that the, he was shot as a rebel maybe mistakenly or what. But that was one of the reasons we came back to Hull because she thought if he was alive he would eventually come back to Hull where they met but – no, he never.
JW: Was he actually a rebel or was he still teaching…
AE: No, he was still a teacher, he was a teacher. Obviously I don’t know exactly what happened at that time, but if you’re wandering around and there’s a civil war on anybody would mistaken you for anything can’t you so don’t know, presumed shot. That’s it.
JW: So was your mum nursing then at the time?
AE: Yes she was a nurse in Nigeria and came over and carried on midwifery and - brought all three of us up, very well so she is a tough old cookie – she’s done well because obviously in them days I don’t think the state was very, as helpful as they are these days. Yeah, it was a struggle, I’m sure it was. Because she had to work nights and – she left me in charge which they wouldn’t do, you can’t do now-a-days but you have the means, you have to do it. We survived.
JW: So you would have moved back to this area. Did you move back to Hull or move back…?
AE: Yeah we move straight back to Hull. I think we, I think our first address was – trying to remember where it was now, off Newland Avenue, Park Avenue, I can’t remem…Ella Street sorry. Ella Street, yes. Yeah we lived there and then Park Avenue – so we’ve had a few addresses in Hull.
JW: What’s your recollections of, of Hull – at that time? So that would be round about 1970 or something
AE: puph…trying to think back now. So I would have been seven and so I – I went to St Nicholas Primary which is at the top of Newland Avenue there - Newland Homes there. We stayed there once or twice when my mum had to go on courses and go away for the night or on the day as well. I remember staying there, Newland Homes, use to take us all in. I always remember it because I was given a banana sandwich one night and I looked at my brother and thought what on earth is this, a banana sandwich I mean people eat them all the time now but in them days I never had a banana sandwich. I was horrified, it still scars me today, but I’ve never had one since either. The thought of a banana in a sandwich, I don’t know it don’t strike me as, but yes.
And as for racism or anything like that, I’ve no recollection of that at all really – nothing at all. Yeah you use to get it at school and stuff like this but I’ve no real recollection. Life was, as far as we were kids life was great. Mother did a smashing job. She was obviously working every hour godsend to look after us but when you’re children you don’t realise that, you don’t appreciate it at the time but when you look back and you think what on earth, I mean I have got two children, I’m a late starter, mine are 8 and 5 at the moment. And I think, “Flipping heck, how did you manage on your own with 3 and work nights as a midwife”.
JW: Born in the UK, spent your first sort of 4 or 5 years then in Nigeria, when you were at school at St Nicholas’s or wherever – did you feel British or Nigerian?
AE: - that’s a good question. I can’t honestly remember. As I say a lot of my years seems to be just wiped out. I seem to remember a lot more when I was 8/10. But I think I have always felt British because obviously being in Nigeria at such a young age I didn’t absorb a lot of it. Coming back here, my mum is white, seeing white faces it…yes I felt British, I didn’t feel any different from anybody else, I feel a though I was different from anybody else, I just yeah, so yeah, I did feel British, yeah.
JW: What were your interests at a very young age?
AE: Very young, eating - table tennis, judo. I did allsorts really – like I say, mum did a good job, we were allowed to do a lot of things. Just to find out. I was going to go to judo at YPI in town here, that didn’t suit me. Yeah, table tennis, I enjoyed it but nah, it wasn’t for me. Then obviously after St Nicholas I went to Wyke, then from Wyke I went to Grammar School where I was introduced to rugby union. And I enjoyed ruby union…
JW: Let’s go back to Wyke though first and foremost then as a teenager did you flourish at any academic subjects…
AE: No, really. It was funny you should say that, I was at my mum’s this morning and she’d found some old exam reports, she was looking at them this morning about quarter past 9 and I was middle if not lower table; C’s, Cs, could try harder this that and the other and I was reading them thinking, flipping heck I was reasonable. I had a B in History which was funny because my father was a history teacher and I enjoyed, the only A’Level I got was Biology and I enjoyed Biology and I got a B in that as well and I could understand that; I could see it and understand it but yeah, flourishing at anything, no, I was one of those people, middle of the table just slide through life undetected…
JW: Solid
AE: Yes, reliable. So no, I didn’t really flourish in anything no, and that could be said the same for Grammar School to be fair. The school reports were more or less the same. I didn’t really know what I was going to do when I left.
JW: Extracurricular activities then when you were at Grammar School?
AE: - well. I played rugby union for a while then a friend said to me do you fancy playing rugby league, it though, “Oh, what’s that then?” and he said, “Well when you get tackled in rugby league you don’t have to let go of the ball”, and there’s nobody trampling over you and this that and the other…
JW: Is that the essential difference then because I’ve never…
AE: It is as a rule, yeah. It is one of the vital differences, yes. And – in rugby union as a forward you tend to run around all day you tend to never get to touch the ball whereas rugby league you have to handle the ball, I felt yeah, that’s a bit more my style. So I joined Hull boy’s club in town and that’s when my rugby league started really. And obviously everything else went by the wayside as such not really, I didn’t thing I thought I was going to play it professionally or anything like that or aspired for a career because it wasn’t a full-time professional sport in Hull at that time but it was just something I wanted to do. And at that time when I was there mother had obviously remarried at that time and my stepfather; he’d take me to Hull Kingston Rovers on Holderness Road there. And I didn’t really think much of it. I just watched it and I couldn’t believe I saw Clive Sullivan on the wing and I I’d read all about him and to be fair he probably was one of my heroes. Mohamed Ali was probably every kid’s hero in them days but yeah Clive Sullivan was probably number 2 and I was astonished to watch it over there so after that one game Hull Kingston Rovers was the side for me. Obviously I was fortunate to get to play for them in the end but yeah, rugby league was probably what I was doing at Grammar School.
JW: Was that essentially white?
AE: - yes
JW: Were there other players from around the world?
AE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, white yeah. I mean I didn’t know many Black children to be fair. And it’s funny, after speaking to Gifty I did go on the website and I saw Addie, I’ve known Addie for years because there weren’t many of us about [laugh]. There were me and my brother in Hull and there was Frank Johnson. I knew his father who has unfortunately passed away now. He was my dentist and I use to see him regularly. He gave me all my fillings but – [laugh] but yeah, it was a small world in them days, you know what I mean, you tend to know each other.
It was nice to see a Black face but - regarding rugby league, no. And it’s funny now if you look at it now you tend to see white faces I don’t see myself as any different to them. It didn’t feel any different. They didn’t make me feel any different so I was privileged really, I was very lucky because there was a lot of nice people, yeah.
JW: So you’ve sort of went off on your sports career – but - was that ever your mum’s plan for you?
AE: No, no I think she would have liked me to have a nice steady job and this that and the other. I know I was always offered, I digress again, I go back to, I was asked to go and play for Hull Kingston Rovers Colts which was the under 17 side, and the chairman at the time Colin Hutton who unfortunately has just passed away asked me if I wanted to do – an apprenticeship in electronics, electrical apprenticeship. Because obviously he could see there was a bit of, hopefully he could sign me on later you see and I thought let’s get us into the fold then. We had a bit of discussion and she said, “No, no I don’t think that’s for you”, because I wanted to work in a lab; I liked chemistry and I like biology, lab work so we turned it down. So really no, sport wasn’t…when I did well at sports she was more pleased about it because everybody knew her, knew me. We went shopping it was a nightmare, couldn’t get anything done, do you know what I mean. Well, well it’s not that bad this sport thing because obviously they wanted to have a career, earn lots of money and this that and the other, and have a steady job, but no. I did get a lab job in the end, I worked for Paul’s Agro on Wincolmlee, I was a YTS to start off with and I was there from about 17 till about 23 – then I joined the fire brigade but – no, she was happy with that I had a lab job and being employed and I was on the road - and then the rugby career started.
JW: Let’s, let’s tip toe around this rugby career.
AE: Right
JW: Tell me the highs and the lows of your career
AE: Yes, well let’s see. It started with a low really, I was playing for the Colts which is under 18’s and then I progressed onto their A team which is the next step to the first team and then I damaged my knee which was when I was 18. So that was, it started with a low point really. The high point was being selected for the Rover’s Colts and then signing a professional contract. We were semi-professional at that time, we all had full-time jobs, everybody. So I signed a professional contract being paid so much when I was 17. And then at 18 I tore a ligament in my knee which meant I was out for a full year which was a bit of a low point because it was a bit of a dodgy, full reconstruction, a bit of a dodgy thing at 18. It was a bit of a low but fortunately I overcome that. I had a year out and then I managed to get back into the A team the following season. Well the rest speaks for itself really, well ’83/’84 I played in the A team and then ‘84/’85 season, I made my debut. Unfortunately for Roy Holdstock who was a Great Britain prop and a regular in the first team got injured in the pre-season training. So I played in the first game – Bradford away in the ‘84/’85 season. And fortunately I never looked back. I played 45 games that season and I never missed a game and that was the start of a relatively short career to be fair. So…
JW: So how long?
AE: Well, well I had to retire really at 28 because the same knee the surgeon said if I was lucky I would get 10 years out of it and I did 18 to 28; I got 10 years out of it.
JW: 10 years out.
AE: And I, I’d obviously joined the fire brigade by then before I retired; I’d played rugby and fire brigade. They overlapped for 3 years. And it was a choice in carrying on getting more and more injuries and losing a good job as a fireman.
JW: Over the years we’ve heard a little about racism in football. Has there been the same sort of problems of racism in rugby?
AE: - do you know what, I don’t think it’s as bad as football. I mean I’ve never really, I can’t recall any incidence where someone shouted a racist remark to me at football or I’ve not heard them. Because once you go onto the pitch you’re in your own little mindset, your heart is beating and you’re breathing heavily so you don’t hear everything that is said in the crowd. Some pitches you’re close to them and some you’re far away. I can’t say I ever recall any racism whatsoever in rugby league. I think it’s been good on that fact for many years. Let’s hope it stays like that.
JW: it has a very family following…
AE: That’s right, yes. I mean yeah, there’s not many, no football game where you can all stand drinking beer and watching the game at the same time with family and children, yeah. Football just wouldn’t allow it would they? So I’ve been very fortunate in that, I mean I’ve heard of things done to players – and said at players and thrown at players like bananas thrown at but nothing ever happened to me. The story I’d heard I think it was John Barons, his name was Barons anyway. He played for Bradford. Someone threw a banana at him. I heard this story. He just picked it up, ate it and threw it back. So do you know what I mean, you’ve just got to brush it off, but yes, I’ve never had anything.
JW: Did you travel abroad playing in rugby?
AE: Unfortunately not, no. I was due to go and play at some time with Cronulla, Cornulla Sharks in Australia but unfortunately – I had another reoccurrence of knee problems. Plagued me most of my career so I couldn’t go. So unfortunately I couldn’t go and play abroad. I would like to have done. Australia is a nice place. I would have like to have visited and played but no, I’ve never had that opportunity.
JW: You’re a family man. You’ve got a job outside of rugby just like most people living and working in the city but you’ve also been a bit of a media character over the years. You’ve been in the spotlight. How do you balance the two?
AE: Well rugby, well I’ve always said to people I was getting paid to do rugby even though it was only semi-professional, it wasn’t a great deal of money but it was enough. The fans and the people who want to speak to you in the street, they’re the people that are paying your wages. They’re paying the money that you are collecting. So I felt part of them to be fair, I belonged to them in a sense. Not their property but I belonged to them in a sense. They, they were paying to see me and speak to me and this that and the other so when I was out, I found it very easy. It’s surprising, now that I’ve stopped rugby I mean how long has it been now phhh, 25 years now 26 years. I’m very private person, I don’t tell people a lot of things because it’s funny how they tend to know anyway, people tend to know this that and the other. I mean, and it’s funny because my wife is at work and that, a patience says, ‘Oh yeah your Zook’s wife aren’t you?’ and this that and the other. And unfortunately that’s not her name; Victoria’s her name and she doesn’t mind it because it opens up a lot of avenues, it opens up conversations, it opens up friendships.
It’s a good, it’s a good angle to get in. it’s done wonders for me playing for Hull Kingston Rovers as I say it’s been great for me. I would have done it for nothing. It’s opened up a lot of avenues and everybody in my job at the fire brigade, “Hey now what are you doing here? What do you want a job as a fireman?” and I say, “Oh because I can’t play rugby forever”. It maybe helped me to get it but I don’t honestly know I wasn’t aware of anything that went on in the procedure but yeah, it’s opened up a lot of doors for me. And created a lot of friends and even now I can walk through the shops and someone will say, “Well now then Zook you should be playing now” and I would love to play now but unfortunately I would be lucky to reach down for my laces but that’s the nature of rugby league, once you’ve finished and you get older everything starts going downhill but – it’s been very good to me.
JW: So what changes have you notice in Hull, Beverley, East Riding over the years that you’ve lived here?
AE: Changes. Well I don’t know really, I mean Hull seems to get a lot of stick for this that and the other. I think it’s a lovely place. I mean you go to any city or town and you’re always gonna, you can always find a bad spot anywhere and for some reason they seem to pick on Hull a little bit and I don’t know why. It’s a lovely place. As I say my mum came back here so it can’t be that bad and brought us three up and we’ve – and as I say I haven’t suffered any much racism at all to be fair, obviously there might have been a bit at school but nothing I can remember worth commenting on.
JW: So how would you describe Hull to people – outside of the city?
AE: A very nice place to live. Very multicultural. Yeah and safe. A diverse place. I mean I don’t think we are as diverse as other places are we. I think there’s not a large mixture of a, not that I’ve noticed. Or it depend, depends on where, I suppose it depends on which part of city you live doesn’t it but yeah, I’d – I think it’s a smashing place to live Hull. I would recommend it to anybody. But people don’t like to come to Hull because it’s at the end of the M62 isn’t it, the end of, the end of nowhere so they think, “Gracious, we can’t go there” compare to Leeds and places like that. No it’s alright is Hull.
JW: So – you’ve got children…
AE: Mmm
JW: Yeah what are your children involved with?
AE: Well at the moment – they are playing rugby not because I’ve badgered them, they’ve pestered me for 3 months. And I’m not one of these who likes to let, see my career through my children and see. If they want to do it, they have to badger me for 3 months so I know they really want to do it and then eventually yes, I took them to rugby so they are both playing rugby.
JW: What sort of age are they now?
AE: One’s 8, my eldest is 8 and the youngest is 5.
JW: Boys?
AE: Yes, two boys sorry. Yeah, Teo, Teo is the eldest. He’s 8. He’s actually playing games at the moment, starting, starting next week I think. Max is only 5 so he’s in the Shrimps, Skirlaugh Shrimps – and – they’re not old enough yet, they’ve got to be 6 before they start playing I believe.
JW: Have they talked to you about their ambitions for life?
AE: - well they both want to be firemen don’t they, obviously because I’m a fireman. So I said yeah, we’ll see if it’s still, if it’s not privatised by then [laugh] we’ll see how it goes because things are changing and the fact that they have to work till 60 now in the fire brigade is another drastic change to the job so it makes things a little more difficult, but if they want to be firemen, that’s fine. It is a very good job. I’ve had a good 30 years out of it and – I enjoyed every minute of it. Things are changing but that’s everywhere unfortunately and not always for the best. But – yeah, it’s been a good career for me. Family wise.
JW: So family wise did you meet your wife locally?
AE: Yes, West Hull girl. Locally. Victoria bless her. Yeah and -
JW: How did that come about?
AE: I was just out with my sister one night and I bumped into, I saw an attractive girl over there and so I introduced myself and asked if I could have her number as you do. It’s simple. If they say, “No”, they say, “No”, don’t they [laugh]. She asked me a few questions, very intelligent of her; she said, “Are you married?” I said “No.” She said “What do you do for a living?” I said, “I’m a fireman.” “Have you any children?” I went “No.” Three very good questions and I thought yes, she’s, she’s not daft, I like that. So I got her number and that’s it. That’s 11 years now I think 11/12 years? So yeah, bless her cotton socks so yeah I’m very lucky. Obviously I didn’t start having children till late really which was a good thing and a bad thing really. I can be a bit grumpy but it keeps me going and they now have the pleasure of me every weekend because I’m retired so for them it’s good. I can spend more, well every time they are home from school I am there which is good for them. Victoria is a nurse so she’ll still be working unfortunately, for a while [Laughs]
JW: What do you do to chill out as a family?
AE: Oh right, biking. We have a caravan. We tour. Clumber. Clumber in Nottingham is our favourite spot. It’s all trails. Anything the kids like exercise. Scootering, biking - anything physical at all. I’ve always drummed in that we go out and do something. It’s easier with two, with my two anyway. I have this analogy, they’re like two springer spaniels; you’ve got to run them hard and feed them then you get peace and it works every time.
JW: Yeah
AE: If you sit in all day then it’s a nightmare. So yes, mine get run ragged and they love it.
JW: So has there been any of your Nigerian culture in your family that you’ve kept going like food – music, icons or anything like that?
AE: Not really, no, it’s funny I was thinking about this before I came here and I was thinking about it. No nothing at all really apart from my mum cooks lovely curries, fish stews and gari, I mean gari I never would have, started having it again about 10-15 years ago.
JW: What’s that sorry, explain...
AE: Gari. It’s gari it’s like a powdered root. And it’s very simple, it’s like semolina. You just mix it with hot water and next minute you have this, looks like mash potato but it’s very tasty. And - Mum thought I wouldn’t like it and it’s funny because I recollect having it and she said yeah because when we taken, before we were basically when I was young, mum was taken away in the jeep and that memory I said that I had of us all in a jeep, and she was taken away and things were, prison camp whatever you want to call it and that, we were fed gari there and I was given gari you see. I still have a recollection of this flavour, this taste so that’s the only thing I have the same which is gari. It’s Nigerian basically. As for culture and that, no we weren’t, mum came to Hull. We didn’t really carry anything on because obviously mum’s English, she’s from down South in Otham in Kent. So no, I’ve obviously asked the questions, we have lots of pictures and I know the history of the family but we have never really carried a lot on. I have just blended in nicely with culture here and carried on.
JW: You’ve probably seen more of a divide sort of East West I suppose in the city over rugby teams than any…
AE: Oh mainly yes, although I think it’s settled calm down a little bit now than in the ‘80’s because it was wild. You wouldn’t see anyone walking around in East Hull in a black and white jersey and they do freely now. And likewise you wouldn’t see anyone in red and white in West Hull walking around but they do it freely now. Because I see people and I think tell you now in the olden days in the ‘80’s that would never happen, never happen. They’d be frightened to death but it’s a good thing you should be allowed to do that. But yeah, the derby games especially, I remember the first one – ‘84/’85 season and – I think there were 17,000, 18,000 in the old ground where Morrisons is now on Holderness Road absolutely packed.
I mean I remember going shopping middle of the week and it took us ages to get around the town because of loads of people stopping you, are you fit, who’s playing and questions and this that and the other. Took us, took us forever but – the atmosphere was – unbelievable. But yeah, apparently Hull fans were just marching down Holderness Road just stopping traffic. I mean you think about it now and it’s quite civilised but in them days yeah, it was stopping the traffic it was.
We didn’t see that as players we just changed round thinking about bashing somebody else I mean the opposition [laugh]. They were just all marching down Holderness Road stopping traffic it was just a sight to see. And I’m sure the supporter will tell you some better stories than I can because I was just in the changing room putting my shorts on and getting ready for, to do my bit but yeah, you hear about it later on.
JW: Have you got a bucket list? Things you want to achieve in life still?
AE: I haven’t really, no. I’ve never, I’ve never thought about anything like, people say something, “What are you going to do now Zook? Got anything planned?” “Not really, no”. I’m just going to carry on as I do, steady away. Kids first, maybe a few flash holidays next year when the youngest is older.
And as for a bucket list, no. I’ve – I’ve been very fortunate. Everything seems to have fallen into place for me, I mean yeah, you bring your own luck on you regard yourself in certain directions. But I’ve had a good life and – I’m very happy with the way it’s going now and I’ve no plans for anything else at the moment. I’m sure something will crop up that I plan on doing but no, nothing as such as a bucket list that I feel that I have to, have to achieve before I leave this earth [laughs]
JW: So I’m just wondering as I matured, has that interest in your heritage developed in…
AE: Well, yeah. Possibly yes. I mean I’ve often discussed with mum about going back to Nigeria and visiting but I – just never got around to it. Actually I think, I don’t know how easy that is to do to be fair. I do have a cousin who lives here who goes back on a probably once every 4 or 5 years. So that is probably something I would probably think I would like to think about now that you’ve jogged my mind, but yes, I don’t know how safe Nigeria is at the moment and that’s another thing you’ve got to think about. I’m not sure how safe Nigeria is to travel. It might just be me being over cautious I don’t know but.
JW: Are you widely travelled?
AE: Not for a long time no. With the job and children, no, not really no. I mean been to a few Singapore, Bangkok - normal, usual places but no I haven’t travelled a lot. Kenya. No, I’ve travelled a little bit but not widely.
JW: I’m going to ask you a tough question or some other people have found it a tough question. If you could – write to your younger self and…
AE: Right…
JW: And sort of give an essential – message or lesson from your life, what would that be?
AE: Work harder at school. That’s always the old classic isn’t it? Work harder at school because life can be a little bit easier with a better qualification. I’m not saying I’m, I’ve no regrets about my life, but I think it would have been a lot easier with a few more qualifications, you have more choices. So that’s what I would say to anybody young nowadays but they don’t listen to me because you always think school’s awful and you know best – but yes, tell myself, yeah, I wouldn’t change anything apart from, yeah, try and work a little bit harder. I probably would have still been a fireman if the opportunity arose because it was a cracking job but some more qualifications, yes. To myself yes, it would have been good.
JW: So I think the listeners listening to your story and perhaps exploring other stories on the website - what message do you hope they would take away? Well what’s the essential message you want to give them?
AE: I’m a Black person living in Hull and I’ve found it a very good place to live being here. What I’m 53 and half now so 50 odd years; wonderful place to live. I want everybody to understand that whatever colour, nationality, we’re all the same and I love Hull. I’m part of Hull. I feel part of Hull and I want to feel part of Hull. I’ve played for a Hull rugby team, represented Hull and I’m very proud to do that. I got paid to play rugby but I always say to people really I would have played for nothing, just to play for Hull Kingston Rovers. I’m very proud to do that. It’s looked after me has Hull. I’m, I try and do my best for Hull Kingston Rovers. Yes I got paid but I would have done it for nothing because I was that proud of it. It was good.
JW: It’s a great story. Thank you for sharing, thank you very much.
AE: No problem.
JW: Cheers
AE: Cheers Jerome.
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 2017
JW: Thanks for coming in. Nice to meet you.
AE: And you Jerome.
JW: Can you introduce yourself first and foremost, tell the listener who you are.
AE: Right my name is Asuquo Ema, to my friends known as Zook.
JW: And - the essential question really is, what is your connection to, to Africa?
AE: My father was Nigerian, he came over obviously and met my mother who was white from down south Otham in Kent – met at Hull University in - 1962 and obviously fell in love and in 1963 I was the product of that.
JW: OK so in 1963.
AE: I was born, yeah.
JW: Born whereabouts?
AE: Beverley
JW: Born in Beverley
AE: Born in Beverley, yes
JW: In the East Riding
AE: They were still, my father was still here studying over here, he was a history teacher, mother was a nurse, midwife. And – in 1964 I think we went back to Nigeria. And my father went back to teach, it was part of his promise, obviously they’d paid the fund to come over, part of his promise was to go back to Calabar in Nigeria to teach.
JW: So this is interesting. Born in the UK in Beverley and at about a year old went back to Nigeria.
AE: Yes that’s right yes.
JW: So your earliest memories was what?
AE: - phuh, flipping heck. My earliest memories - Can’t remember a lot really. I remember a lot from Nigeria, not nice things to be fair – because obviously the Biafran war broke out and - the only memories I have now of Nigeria unfortunately are of – airplanes going overhead and striking the houses and there were bullets and us having to go in outdoor shelters which were covered with corrugated steel and then another image I remember is going into the - hospital where mum worked and wondering why all the patients were laid under the bed, they were laid under the beds the mattresses with the drips still up and obviously that was for the same reason, people were firing bullets and this that and the other and mum got injured. And I always remember distinctly that she had a red arm I was wondering what was, and I know now that a bullet hit her, went through her shoulder and came out of her forearm so she just wrapped it and she carried on with her duties and that is …and obviously the next, the only other memory I remember from Nigeria is us all in a jeep with soldiers; me, my mum and my brother was born there and she was pregnant with my sister and we were being transported somewhere. They are my only memories of Nigeria. Then only other one was of the tribal dancers with them coming down the street and frightening me to death, that’s the only other memory I have of Nigeria. We, I came back mind you when I was 5 and my brother would have been one.
JW: So you wouldn’t really have understood the fact that you…
AE: No…
JW: … were growing up in a war zone…
AE: …no that’s right
JW: And that that was not the norm
AE: No. I don’t really remember it. I mean I’m not scared by the memories at all it’s just that they are very vivid that’s all. But – obviously I didn’t really know my father, we lost him allegedly he went to visit his family in Akwa Ibom and never came back. And when mother came back to England she made a few enquiries and this that and the other and solicitors were involved and the alleged theory is that the, he was shot as a rebel maybe mistakenly or what. But that was one of the reasons we came back to Hull because she thought if he was alive he would eventually come back to Hull where they met but – no, he never.
JW: Was he actually a rebel or was he still teaching…
AE: No, he was still a teacher, he was a teacher. Obviously I don’t know exactly what happened at that time, but if you’re wandering around and there’s a civil war on anybody would mistaken you for anything can’t you so don’t know, presumed shot. That’s it.
JW: So was your mum nursing then at the time?
AE: Yes she was a nurse in Nigeria and came over and carried on midwifery and - brought all three of us up, very well so she is a tough old cookie – she’s done well because obviously in them days I don’t think the state was very, as helpful as they are these days. Yeah, it was a struggle, I’m sure it was. Because she had to work nights and – she left me in charge which they wouldn’t do, you can’t do now-a-days but you have the means, you have to do it. We survived.
JW: So you would have moved back to this area. Did you move back to Hull or move back…?
AE: Yeah we move straight back to Hull. I think we, I think our first address was – trying to remember where it was now, off Newland Avenue, Park Avenue, I can’t remem…Ella Street sorry. Ella Street, yes. Yeah we lived there and then Park Avenue – so we’ve had a few addresses in Hull.
JW: What’s your recollections of, of Hull – at that time? So that would be round about 1970 or something
AE: puph…trying to think back now. So I would have been seven and so I – I went to St Nicholas Primary which is at the top of Newland Avenue there - Newland Homes there. We stayed there once or twice when my mum had to go on courses and go away for the night or on the day as well. I remember staying there, Newland Homes, use to take us all in. I always remember it because I was given a banana sandwich one night and I looked at my brother and thought what on earth is this, a banana sandwich I mean people eat them all the time now but in them days I never had a banana sandwich. I was horrified, it still scars me today, but I’ve never had one since either. The thought of a banana in a sandwich, I don’t know it don’t strike me as, but yes.
And as for racism or anything like that, I’ve no recollection of that at all really – nothing at all. Yeah you use to get it at school and stuff like this but I’ve no real recollection. Life was, as far as we were kids life was great. Mother did a smashing job. She was obviously working every hour godsend to look after us but when you’re children you don’t realise that, you don’t appreciate it at the time but when you look back and you think what on earth, I mean I have got two children, I’m a late starter, mine are 8 and 5 at the moment. And I think, “Flipping heck, how did you manage on your own with 3 and work nights as a midwife”.
JW: Born in the UK, spent your first sort of 4 or 5 years then in Nigeria, when you were at school at St Nicholas’s or wherever – did you feel British or Nigerian?
AE: - that’s a good question. I can’t honestly remember. As I say a lot of my years seems to be just wiped out. I seem to remember a lot more when I was 8/10. But I think I have always felt British because obviously being in Nigeria at such a young age I didn’t absorb a lot of it. Coming back here, my mum is white, seeing white faces it…yes I felt British, I didn’t feel any different from anybody else, I feel a though I was different from anybody else, I just yeah, so yeah, I did feel British, yeah.
JW: What were your interests at a very young age?
AE: Very young, eating - table tennis, judo. I did allsorts really – like I say, mum did a good job, we were allowed to do a lot of things. Just to find out. I was going to go to judo at YPI in town here, that didn’t suit me. Yeah, table tennis, I enjoyed it but nah, it wasn’t for me. Then obviously after St Nicholas I went to Wyke, then from Wyke I went to Grammar School where I was introduced to rugby union. And I enjoyed ruby union…
JW: Let’s go back to Wyke though first and foremost then as a teenager did you flourish at any academic subjects…
AE: No, really. It was funny you should say that, I was at my mum’s this morning and she’d found some old exam reports, she was looking at them this morning about quarter past 9 and I was middle if not lower table; C’s, Cs, could try harder this that and the other and I was reading them thinking, flipping heck I was reasonable. I had a B in History which was funny because my father was a history teacher and I enjoyed, the only A’Level I got was Biology and I enjoyed Biology and I got a B in that as well and I could understand that; I could see it and understand it but yeah, flourishing at anything, no, I was one of those people, middle of the table just slide through life undetected…
JW: Solid
AE: Yes, reliable. So no, I didn’t really flourish in anything no, and that could be said the same for Grammar School to be fair. The school reports were more or less the same. I didn’t really know what I was going to do when I left.
JW: Extracurricular activities then when you were at Grammar School?
AE: - well. I played rugby union for a while then a friend said to me do you fancy playing rugby league, it though, “Oh, what’s that then?” and he said, “Well when you get tackled in rugby league you don’t have to let go of the ball”, and there’s nobody trampling over you and this that and the other…
JW: Is that the essential difference then because I’ve never…
AE: It is as a rule, yeah. It is one of the vital differences, yes. And – in rugby union as a forward you tend to run around all day you tend to never get to touch the ball whereas rugby league you have to handle the ball, I felt yeah, that’s a bit more my style. So I joined Hull boy’s club in town and that’s when my rugby league started really. And obviously everything else went by the wayside as such not really, I didn’t thing I thought I was going to play it professionally or anything like that or aspired for a career because it wasn’t a full-time professional sport in Hull at that time but it was just something I wanted to do. And at that time when I was there mother had obviously remarried at that time and my stepfather; he’d take me to Hull Kingston Rovers on Holderness Road there. And I didn’t really think much of it. I just watched it and I couldn’t believe I saw Clive Sullivan on the wing and I I’d read all about him and to be fair he probably was one of my heroes. Mohamed Ali was probably every kid’s hero in them days but yeah Clive Sullivan was probably number 2 and I was astonished to watch it over there so after that one game Hull Kingston Rovers was the side for me. Obviously I was fortunate to get to play for them in the end but yeah, rugby league was probably what I was doing at Grammar School.
JW: Was that essentially white?
AE: - yes
JW: Were there other players from around the world?
AE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, white yeah. I mean I didn’t know many Black children to be fair. And it’s funny, after speaking to Gifty I did go on the website and I saw Addie, I’ve known Addie for years because there weren’t many of us about [laugh]. There were me and my brother in Hull and there was Frank Johnson. I knew his father who has unfortunately passed away now. He was my dentist and I use to see him regularly. He gave me all my fillings but – [laugh] but yeah, it was a small world in them days, you know what I mean, you tend to know each other.
It was nice to see a Black face but - regarding rugby league, no. And it’s funny now if you look at it now you tend to see white faces I don’t see myself as any different to them. It didn’t feel any different. They didn’t make me feel any different so I was privileged really, I was very lucky because there was a lot of nice people, yeah.
JW: So you’ve sort of went off on your sports career – but - was that ever your mum’s plan for you?
AE: No, no I think she would have liked me to have a nice steady job and this that and the other. I know I was always offered, I digress again, I go back to, I was asked to go and play for Hull Kingston Rovers Colts which was the under 17 side, and the chairman at the time Colin Hutton who unfortunately has just passed away asked me if I wanted to do – an apprenticeship in electronics, electrical apprenticeship. Because obviously he could see there was a bit of, hopefully he could sign me on later you see and I thought let’s get us into the fold then. We had a bit of discussion and she said, “No, no I don’t think that’s for you”, because I wanted to work in a lab; I liked chemistry and I like biology, lab work so we turned it down. So really no, sport wasn’t…when I did well at sports she was more pleased about it because everybody knew her, knew me. We went shopping it was a nightmare, couldn’t get anything done, do you know what I mean. Well, well it’s not that bad this sport thing because obviously they wanted to have a career, earn lots of money and this that and the other, and have a steady job, but no. I did get a lab job in the end, I worked for Paul’s Agro on Wincolmlee, I was a YTS to start off with and I was there from about 17 till about 23 – then I joined the fire brigade but – no, she was happy with that I had a lab job and being employed and I was on the road - and then the rugby career started.
JW: Let’s, let’s tip toe around this rugby career.
AE: Right
JW: Tell me the highs and the lows of your career
AE: Yes, well let’s see. It started with a low really, I was playing for the Colts which is under 18’s and then I progressed onto their A team which is the next step to the first team and then I damaged my knee which was when I was 18. So that was, it started with a low point really. The high point was being selected for the Rover’s Colts and then signing a professional contract. We were semi-professional at that time, we all had full-time jobs, everybody. So I signed a professional contract being paid so much when I was 17. And then at 18 I tore a ligament in my knee which meant I was out for a full year which was a bit of a low point because it was a bit of a dodgy, full reconstruction, a bit of a dodgy thing at 18. It was a bit of a low but fortunately I overcome that. I had a year out and then I managed to get back into the A team the following season. Well the rest speaks for itself really, well ’83/’84 I played in the A team and then ‘84/’85 season, I made my debut. Unfortunately for Roy Holdstock who was a Great Britain prop and a regular in the first team got injured in the pre-season training. So I played in the first game – Bradford away in the ‘84/’85 season. And fortunately I never looked back. I played 45 games that season and I never missed a game and that was the start of a relatively short career to be fair. So…
JW: So how long?
AE: Well, well I had to retire really at 28 because the same knee the surgeon said if I was lucky I would get 10 years out of it and I did 18 to 28; I got 10 years out of it.
JW: 10 years out.
AE: And I, I’d obviously joined the fire brigade by then before I retired; I’d played rugby and fire brigade. They overlapped for 3 years. And it was a choice in carrying on getting more and more injuries and losing a good job as a fireman.
JW: Over the years we’ve heard a little about racism in football. Has there been the same sort of problems of racism in rugby?
AE: - do you know what, I don’t think it’s as bad as football. I mean I’ve never really, I can’t recall any incidence where someone shouted a racist remark to me at football or I’ve not heard them. Because once you go onto the pitch you’re in your own little mindset, your heart is beating and you’re breathing heavily so you don’t hear everything that is said in the crowd. Some pitches you’re close to them and some you’re far away. I can’t say I ever recall any racism whatsoever in rugby league. I think it’s been good on that fact for many years. Let’s hope it stays like that.
JW: it has a very family following…
AE: That’s right, yes. I mean yeah, there’s not many, no football game where you can all stand drinking beer and watching the game at the same time with family and children, yeah. Football just wouldn’t allow it would they? So I’ve been very fortunate in that, I mean I’ve heard of things done to players – and said at players and thrown at players like bananas thrown at but nothing ever happened to me. The story I’d heard I think it was John Barons, his name was Barons anyway. He played for Bradford. Someone threw a banana at him. I heard this story. He just picked it up, ate it and threw it back. So do you know what I mean, you’ve just got to brush it off, but yes, I’ve never had anything.
JW: Did you travel abroad playing in rugby?
AE: Unfortunately not, no. I was due to go and play at some time with Cronulla, Cornulla Sharks in Australia but unfortunately – I had another reoccurrence of knee problems. Plagued me most of my career so I couldn’t go. So unfortunately I couldn’t go and play abroad. I would like to have done. Australia is a nice place. I would have like to have visited and played but no, I’ve never had that opportunity.
JW: You’re a family man. You’ve got a job outside of rugby just like most people living and working in the city but you’ve also been a bit of a media character over the years. You’ve been in the spotlight. How do you balance the two?
AE: Well rugby, well I’ve always said to people I was getting paid to do rugby even though it was only semi-professional, it wasn’t a great deal of money but it was enough. The fans and the people who want to speak to you in the street, they’re the people that are paying your wages. They’re paying the money that you are collecting. So I felt part of them to be fair, I belonged to them in a sense. Not their property but I belonged to them in a sense. They, they were paying to see me and speak to me and this that and the other so when I was out, I found it very easy. It’s surprising, now that I’ve stopped rugby I mean how long has it been now phhh, 25 years now 26 years. I’m very private person, I don’t tell people a lot of things because it’s funny how they tend to know anyway, people tend to know this that and the other. I mean, and it’s funny because my wife is at work and that, a patience says, ‘Oh yeah your Zook’s wife aren’t you?’ and this that and the other. And unfortunately that’s not her name; Victoria’s her name and she doesn’t mind it because it opens up a lot of avenues, it opens up conversations, it opens up friendships.
It’s a good, it’s a good angle to get in. it’s done wonders for me playing for Hull Kingston Rovers as I say it’s been great for me. I would have done it for nothing. It’s opened up a lot of avenues and everybody in my job at the fire brigade, “Hey now what are you doing here? What do you want a job as a fireman?” and I say, “Oh because I can’t play rugby forever”. It maybe helped me to get it but I don’t honestly know I wasn’t aware of anything that went on in the procedure but yeah, it’s opened up a lot of doors for me. And created a lot of friends and even now I can walk through the shops and someone will say, “Well now then Zook you should be playing now” and I would love to play now but unfortunately I would be lucky to reach down for my laces but that’s the nature of rugby league, once you’ve finished and you get older everything starts going downhill but – it’s been very good to me.
JW: So what changes have you notice in Hull, Beverley, East Riding over the years that you’ve lived here?
AE: Changes. Well I don’t know really, I mean Hull seems to get a lot of stick for this that and the other. I think it’s a lovely place. I mean you go to any city or town and you’re always gonna, you can always find a bad spot anywhere and for some reason they seem to pick on Hull a little bit and I don’t know why. It’s a lovely place. As I say my mum came back here so it can’t be that bad and brought us three up and we’ve – and as I say I haven’t suffered any much racism at all to be fair, obviously there might have been a bit at school but nothing I can remember worth commenting on.
JW: So how would you describe Hull to people – outside of the city?
AE: A very nice place to live. Very multicultural. Yeah and safe. A diverse place. I mean I don’t think we are as diverse as other places are we. I think there’s not a large mixture of a, not that I’ve noticed. Or it depend, depends on where, I suppose it depends on which part of city you live doesn’t it but yeah, I’d – I think it’s a smashing place to live Hull. I would recommend it to anybody. But people don’t like to come to Hull because it’s at the end of the M62 isn’t it, the end of, the end of nowhere so they think, “Gracious, we can’t go there” compare to Leeds and places like that. No it’s alright is Hull.
JW: So – you’ve got children…
AE: Mmm
JW: Yeah what are your children involved with?
AE: Well at the moment – they are playing rugby not because I’ve badgered them, they’ve pestered me for 3 months. And I’m not one of these who likes to let, see my career through my children and see. If they want to do it, they have to badger me for 3 months so I know they really want to do it and then eventually yes, I took them to rugby so they are both playing rugby.
JW: What sort of age are they now?
AE: One’s 8, my eldest is 8 and the youngest is 5.
JW: Boys?
AE: Yes, two boys sorry. Yeah, Teo, Teo is the eldest. He’s 8. He’s actually playing games at the moment, starting, starting next week I think. Max is only 5 so he’s in the Shrimps, Skirlaugh Shrimps – and – they’re not old enough yet, they’ve got to be 6 before they start playing I believe.
JW: Have they talked to you about their ambitions for life?
AE: - well they both want to be firemen don’t they, obviously because I’m a fireman. So I said yeah, we’ll see if it’s still, if it’s not privatised by then [laugh] we’ll see how it goes because things are changing and the fact that they have to work till 60 now in the fire brigade is another drastic change to the job so it makes things a little more difficult, but if they want to be firemen, that’s fine. It is a very good job. I’ve had a good 30 years out of it and – I enjoyed every minute of it. Things are changing but that’s everywhere unfortunately and not always for the best. But – yeah, it’s been a good career for me. Family wise.
JW: So family wise did you meet your wife locally?
AE: Yes, West Hull girl. Locally. Victoria bless her. Yeah and -
JW: How did that come about?
AE: I was just out with my sister one night and I bumped into, I saw an attractive girl over there and so I introduced myself and asked if I could have her number as you do. It’s simple. If they say, “No”, they say, “No”, don’t they [laugh]. She asked me a few questions, very intelligent of her; she said, “Are you married?” I said “No.” She said “What do you do for a living?” I said, “I’m a fireman.” “Have you any children?” I went “No.” Three very good questions and I thought yes, she’s, she’s not daft, I like that. So I got her number and that’s it. That’s 11 years now I think 11/12 years? So yeah, bless her cotton socks so yeah I’m very lucky. Obviously I didn’t start having children till late really which was a good thing and a bad thing really. I can be a bit grumpy but it keeps me going and they now have the pleasure of me every weekend because I’m retired so for them it’s good. I can spend more, well every time they are home from school I am there which is good for them. Victoria is a nurse so she’ll still be working unfortunately, for a while [Laughs]
JW: What do you do to chill out as a family?
AE: Oh right, biking. We have a caravan. We tour. Clumber. Clumber in Nottingham is our favourite spot. It’s all trails. Anything the kids like exercise. Scootering, biking - anything physical at all. I’ve always drummed in that we go out and do something. It’s easier with two, with my two anyway. I have this analogy, they’re like two springer spaniels; you’ve got to run them hard and feed them then you get peace and it works every time.
JW: Yeah
AE: If you sit in all day then it’s a nightmare. So yes, mine get run ragged and they love it.
JW: So has there been any of your Nigerian culture in your family that you’ve kept going like food – music, icons or anything like that?
AE: Not really, no, it’s funny I was thinking about this before I came here and I was thinking about it. No nothing at all really apart from my mum cooks lovely curries, fish stews and gari, I mean gari I never would have, started having it again about 10-15 years ago.
JW: What’s that sorry, explain...
AE: Gari. It’s gari it’s like a powdered root. And it’s very simple, it’s like semolina. You just mix it with hot water and next minute you have this, looks like mash potato but it’s very tasty. And - Mum thought I wouldn’t like it and it’s funny because I recollect having it and she said yeah because when we taken, before we were basically when I was young, mum was taken away in the jeep and that memory I said that I had of us all in a jeep, and she was taken away and things were, prison camp whatever you want to call it and that, we were fed gari there and I was given gari you see. I still have a recollection of this flavour, this taste so that’s the only thing I have the same which is gari. It’s Nigerian basically. As for culture and that, no we weren’t, mum came to Hull. We didn’t really carry anything on because obviously mum’s English, she’s from down South in Otham in Kent. So no, I’ve obviously asked the questions, we have lots of pictures and I know the history of the family but we have never really carried a lot on. I have just blended in nicely with culture here and carried on.
JW: You’ve probably seen more of a divide sort of East West I suppose in the city over rugby teams than any…
AE: Oh mainly yes, although I think it’s settled calm down a little bit now than in the ‘80’s because it was wild. You wouldn’t see anyone walking around in East Hull in a black and white jersey and they do freely now. And likewise you wouldn’t see anyone in red and white in West Hull walking around but they do it freely now. Because I see people and I think tell you now in the olden days in the ‘80’s that would never happen, never happen. They’d be frightened to death but it’s a good thing you should be allowed to do that. But yeah, the derby games especially, I remember the first one – ‘84/’85 season and – I think there were 17,000, 18,000 in the old ground where Morrisons is now on Holderness Road absolutely packed.
I mean I remember going shopping middle of the week and it took us ages to get around the town because of loads of people stopping you, are you fit, who’s playing and questions and this that and the other. Took us, took us forever but – the atmosphere was – unbelievable. But yeah, apparently Hull fans were just marching down Holderness Road just stopping traffic. I mean you think about it now and it’s quite civilised but in them days yeah, it was stopping the traffic it was.
We didn’t see that as players we just changed round thinking about bashing somebody else I mean the opposition [laugh]. They were just all marching down Holderness Road stopping traffic it was just a sight to see. And I’m sure the supporter will tell you some better stories than I can because I was just in the changing room putting my shorts on and getting ready for, to do my bit but yeah, you hear about it later on.
JW: Have you got a bucket list? Things you want to achieve in life still?
AE: I haven’t really, no. I’ve never, I’ve never thought about anything like, people say something, “What are you going to do now Zook? Got anything planned?” “Not really, no”. I’m just going to carry on as I do, steady away. Kids first, maybe a few flash holidays next year when the youngest is older.
And as for a bucket list, no. I’ve – I’ve been very fortunate. Everything seems to have fallen into place for me, I mean yeah, you bring your own luck on you regard yourself in certain directions. But I’ve had a good life and – I’m very happy with the way it’s going now and I’ve no plans for anything else at the moment. I’m sure something will crop up that I plan on doing but no, nothing as such as a bucket list that I feel that I have to, have to achieve before I leave this earth [laughs]
JW: So I’m just wondering as I matured, has that interest in your heritage developed in…
AE: Well, yeah. Possibly yes. I mean I’ve often discussed with mum about going back to Nigeria and visiting but I – just never got around to it. Actually I think, I don’t know how easy that is to do to be fair. I do have a cousin who lives here who goes back on a probably once every 4 or 5 years. So that is probably something I would probably think I would like to think about now that you’ve jogged my mind, but yes, I don’t know how safe Nigeria is at the moment and that’s another thing you’ve got to think about. I’m not sure how safe Nigeria is to travel. It might just be me being over cautious I don’t know but.
JW: Are you widely travelled?
AE: Not for a long time no. With the job and children, no, not really no. I mean been to a few Singapore, Bangkok - normal, usual places but no I haven’t travelled a lot. Kenya. No, I’ve travelled a little bit but not widely.
JW: I’m going to ask you a tough question or some other people have found it a tough question. If you could – write to your younger self and…
AE: Right…
JW: And sort of give an essential – message or lesson from your life, what would that be?
AE: Work harder at school. That’s always the old classic isn’t it? Work harder at school because life can be a little bit easier with a better qualification. I’m not saying I’m, I’ve no regrets about my life, but I think it would have been a lot easier with a few more qualifications, you have more choices. So that’s what I would say to anybody young nowadays but they don’t listen to me because you always think school’s awful and you know best – but yes, tell myself, yeah, I wouldn’t change anything apart from, yeah, try and work a little bit harder. I probably would have still been a fireman if the opportunity arose because it was a cracking job but some more qualifications, yes. To myself yes, it would have been good.
JW: So I think the listeners listening to your story and perhaps exploring other stories on the website - what message do you hope they would take away? Well what’s the essential message you want to give them?
AE: I’m a Black person living in Hull and I’ve found it a very good place to live being here. What I’m 53 and half now so 50 odd years; wonderful place to live. I want everybody to understand that whatever colour, nationality, we’re all the same and I love Hull. I’m part of Hull. I feel part of Hull and I want to feel part of Hull. I’ve played for a Hull rugby team, represented Hull and I’m very proud to do that. I got paid to play rugby but I always say to people really I would have played for nothing, just to play for Hull Kingston Rovers. I’m very proud to do that. It’s looked after me has Hull. I’m, I try and do my best for Hull Kingston Rovers. Yes I got paid but I would have done it for nothing because I was that proud of it. It was good.
JW: It’s a great story. Thank you for sharing, thank you very much.
AE: No problem.
JW: Cheers
AE: Cheers Jerome.