Lawrence Sibanda
Lawrence was born and raised in 1993 in South Africa but is of Zimbabwean descent. He grew up in a very diverse multicultural, multi-faith environment immediately after the apartheid era. He feels his experiences in his formative years gave him good grounding to learn the resilience that he needed in his later life following the loss of his sight after meningitis. He has since found that he can transform a passion in music into a successful career.
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Transcription: Lawrence Sibanda Interview
Interview with Lawrence Sibanda
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 25 Aug 2016
JW: Well, Lawrence. Thank you for coming in. It’s really good to meet you. Just for the sake of the – the listeners to these podcasts – can you start off by introducing yourself please?
LS: Yeah. Sure. My name is Lawrence Sibanda – of African descent - both my parents are Zimbabwean so I am a Zimbabwean, but born and partially raised in Johannesburg, South Africa as well, so, but I was raised in between both countries, so - before I actually migrated to Hull to join my parents because – they moved here so - my whole family moved here.
JW: So you were born in which year?
LS: 1993
JW: 1993. I’m not going to do the maths but that’s relatively recent…
LS: that’s a year before Nelson Mandela came out of prison
JW: Right. OK so cast your mind back for me. Tell me something of the very earliest memory that you have being back in Africa.
LS: - haven’t been asked that question before actually. – Well, I was pretty much a kind of grandmother’s kind of baby to be quite honest with you because my mum was quite young when I was born and I have an older sister who’s 29 this week, actually. Yeah - and we both kind of basically grew up mainly watched by our grandparents because mum used to travel quite, - quite a lot actually. That’s how she ended up like in South Africa and all these places because she used to travel working and stuff like that. And I just remember, like, being you know around my grandmother and having this – surrounding around me with people of all types of background and - social classes and – just basically this diversity in the community and obviously the nice weather, the food, everything I remember really so that’s what I really kind of remember from, being like a child. It was all just innocent around me and, but at that time obviously you don’t really see the diff.., you don’t really see it for what it is, you just see it and it’s just normal to you, sort of thing, if that makes sense, so
JW: So what was this community, near a town, any major town or city?
LS: OK. Well. Let me start from the beginning. For me, basically – being in Johannesburg as a, as a child - That’s a big city, so we’re talking – bigger than London, quite a very big, busy place. Life is so fast, everything happening at once – and as a child that’s where I sort of, kind of started off, basically. And – I had friends who were sort of Jewish. Actually my best friend was half Jewish, half Hindu which I don’t know how that happened, but he was a, his mum was Indian and his Dad was a Jew and his name was Anirudh.
And basically we had friends who were Dutch, friends who were South Africans as well you know, Afrikaner friends, Zulu friends, all sorts of, it was so diverse around me that it was normal for me really at that time but at this time, but this time you we’re talking about a time when post-apartheid, which is a very sensitive time at that time. It was very, the division was real, you know, we’re not, you know, obviously certain people not being allowed in certain places and stuff like that, but – It was coming up to the point where it was coming to an end, but – it always, things like that are going to take a long time to sort of – be resolved basically among people themselves and to accept that this is the end of that era and stuff.
So as a child I didn’t really see it, you know, but when I think of it now, as an adult, and I’m like – damn yeah, it was a bit mad but - so…
JW: Give us some examples of the sort of things you were experiencing.
LS: Stuff like police brutality and stuff like that was happening, as well and racism, obviously, and classism and quite a lot but on the upside, it was a lot of - positives as well, because at that point, I mean, South Africa was one of the wealthiest nations in Africa, and so that meant there were sort of decent education and stuff like that for people but it was accessing that sort of stuff that was sort of difficult for people. But as I grew up things were getting better and better, and we were able to go to school with people from all different types of racial backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds.
And then, obviously, my Zimbabwean side, I grew up there as well because, as I said, my mum used to travel a lot, so I used to have to stay with my grandparents.
And that side of it was different, because Zimbabwe became independent back in 1980, so by the time I was born, they were already in a different place in the society altogether. But obviously, we all know the Robert Mugabe story - it was a different kind of struggle altogether.
It was, it was very different actually, I don’t even know how to explain it in words. It was more - it was more – Zimbabwe was more – it’s a lot more laid back a lot more relaxed. It’s not a fast city life as Johannesburg is, and South Africa is, it’s more laid back. It’s more, it’s ah, I don’t know actually how to put it into words. It’s just a different lifestyle altogether you know.
Yeah, but, but – it’s just, in a way – I’m grateful for those two very different upbringings I had , because it – it – it – put me in a place where I can actually be in any situation, in any kind of environment and be able to adapt because going from one extreme to the other, back and forth all the time, it was sort of like different, because I’d go to one place, and - I’d be surrounded by many Europeans, you know from Australians like I said to Dutch people to Afrikaners to black people, to all sorts of Indians and all kinds of people, and then go over to where I grew up in Zimbabwe, where I wasn’t surrounded by that at all. It was mainly just – my own people – and that was about it, in the environment where I was, so it was – it was two different places, but you know sort of similar struggles at different places.
JW: Did you enjoy one more than the other?
LS: - nah,nah I can’t say that. No, I think actually, ‘cos there was always something to learn from both of them, always something to learn. I think Zimbabwe taught me to – to be a survivor. That survival spirit because, going through the whole era, the early - days of it first switched to, from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe, it became a place where, I hate to say it but the regime that Robert Mugabe put in place it kind of became the place where, I don’t like to get political to be honest, but I’m trying to put it into perspective for you so you understand it.
JW: Yes
LS: The Robert Mugabe regime was more anti-British, anti-European, anti-West sort of society – that’s the sort of thing he was instilling into people so, it was a different lifestyle altogether because we didn’t see too much of the European influence by the time my generation got there because a lot of that was eliminated, whereas my parents would have done because it was a lot more integrated when they was kids. Whereas my, the other side, South African side, it brought – it gave me that, that skill to be able to adapt to different people, and different - communities and cultures and all that sort of stuff. Which has become, became more useful to me, living in Hull now, because - we are diverse, we are quite, - at this point we do have quite a lot of different cultures and all people from all sorts of different places living here, which is basically what I really saw when I was in South Africa, so – I can’t really say I prefer one over the other. I think that both kind of taught me different sides of what life could be and you need something to be learnt from that and use it in the future.
JW: Yeah, yes. So what - artistic or cultural influences had, had an effect, had an impact on you, as a, as a very young man?
LS: Yeah. Artistic. Are you speaking in the sense of music, arts?
JW: Yeah, of music, visual arts or whatever.
LS: Yeah, OK. Well, as a child actually me and my sister used to be very, very much into dance, that’s what we sort of used to, used to do when we were kids. So we used to do a lot of – well, personally for me I mean me and my sister we’re six years apart in age so she was a lot older than me when I was a kid but... I was a lot more up there and I used to do quite a lot of - stuff with some of the youth dance groups and stuff like that you know, which use to combine like African traditional dance sort of styles and stuff with contemporary styles. So I grew up doing stuff like that. Well I, I once was doing stuff with a group which was called New Age and another one that was - called Fresh Mix, which was sort like more contemporary and stuff. So – I kind of did a bit of that, and then my sister used to do stuff as well. And she used to do actual theatre live stuff when she was at high school. So in terms of art we both did that and then obviously as I grew up a bit more, I kind of like started getting into other things, I moved away from the dance a little bit and – I got into other things. Actually I got more into sport as I grew, as I got older. But then – that’s when I kind of had meningitis and – it resulted in - eyesight loss –
JW: – Oh I see
LS: And other problems like hearing loss and other severe problems really that come with being, having meningitis basically, so that meant that I couldn’t do sports that I wanted to do and stuff anymore, the way how I wanted to do it because I’m very competitive. If I can’t do something at the highest level I won’t do it. So then that’s when I kind of discovered the music because when I was recovering from it. At that point I think I was here. Yeah I was here by that point – I was in Hull and -
JW: Let's talk about that journey from Africa.
LS: Yeah sure.
JW: How did that come about?
LS: My mother again. She was always travelling like I mentioned earlier - so she migrated here, I think it was in 2002 or something like that, 3. She moved here and -
JW: Was that through work or through education?
LS: She was working at the time, I mean, she studied here - later on, but she was working at the time, she was basically just migrating as a refugee and seeking for greener pastures I guess. - I mean she did have a, you know, a good job back then at the time and stuff and - but obviously where we come from, there’s certain things that you, certain privileges you get here that you don’t get where we come from and, I think for her she was foreseeing the future sort of thing, she wanted us to have good education, she wanted us to have decent access to, you know, health services and stuff like that and, not that we didn’t have access to that but it cost a lot of money compared to being here, if that makes sense. So she kind of worked at it and worked at it and, actually she used to work for a medical aid company back home called Discovery Health. People don’t have medical aids in the UK but, because we have the NHS, but basically a medical aid is something that, - for people who don’t know, is something that you, it’s sort of like -
JW: An insurance?
LS: An insurance yeah, that you pay a certain amount of money towards, you know every month, in case you get ill or you need a funeral paid for, or anybody in your family gets ill, that money would pay those bills because it is expensive. So that’s what my Mum used to do at the time and - she worked her way up that rank and from where she used to be as a child to where she was as an adult, she worked her way up into that place and then obviously ended up here -
JW: So, how old where you roughly, ten years ago?
LS: At that time? - When my mum left you mean? -
JW: Yeah, and when you moved to the UK.
LS: Ye…I was around 13.
JW: 13?
LS: Yeah I was around 13.
JW: You were very aware of culture.
LS: Yeah I was very, very aware, yeah.
JW: So what, what was it like to be told that you were going to be moving from Africa to - to the UK?
LS: It was hard. It was hard because - at that age you know what it’s like: you’ve got friends, you’re used to your own community. The majority of my family are not here anyway. My Dad is here, my Mum is here and - a few of my uncle and aunties and cousins and stuff, but the majority, like about 80% of my family, they’re all back there, so it was hard in that sense because it was like, I have to separate myself from everything that I’ve gotten used to, you know, imagine it’s like being, it’s like driving on the, you know, right hand side all your life, - keep left and then suddenly they change everything on the roads, you know, we keep right now, do you know what I am saying, it’s like, now you’ve got to learn how to adapt to the whole system over again. So I wasn’t sure how it was going to be like school-wise. I wasn’t sure of what the language, well obviously I always spoke English, but it’s different, you know the dialect is different.
I’m coming to a city called Hull, l mean ’cos the thing is most people, right, in Africa, if you speak of Britain or England, they instantly think of London, right, everybody thinks it’s gonna look like London, so my mum is like no you’re not going to London, you’re going to Hull, and I’m like “Hull, where is Hull?” Where is that? You know what I mean. I’ve never heard of it. I’ve heard of Manchester ‘cos of football, Manchester United…
JW: Yeah.
LS: I’ve heard of Liverpool because of football. I’ve never heard of Hull. Where is Hull? You know. So I moved to Hull and I get here and, I didn’t know what to expect. I really didn’t know what to expect. It was just like…
JW: Why Hull in particular then?
LS: I don’t know why. That’s something to ask my Mum I guess. I followed her here and she was, you know. I think, I think she had relatives. Okay my Mum’s relatives like my Mum’s cousins and stuff, who came here before her, happened to live in Brough and one - one lived in South Cave. So when she moved here that’s the only kind of closest family that she had really in this region. I guess she kind of stopped here and she just stayed here I guess. She never really relocated although those relatives that she had here have all moved now to elsewhere. But she just stayed here I guess and - that was that, really.
JW: So for you as a 12-13 year old - you found it really hard, a real wrench to be taken from Africa to come to the UK. Was there any excitement mixed with that too then?
LS: Yeah it was because obviously you’re reuniting with your mum full time because I honestly growing up, I’d never actually lived fully with my Mum since I was like 5 or something, because of her having to be away all the time working and stuff and, I understood because if she hadn’t done what had to do, we would be in a very bad place, so she had to do what she had to do, at that time, so the excitement for me mainly came from reuniting with my mother and actually living with her full time and it was like, yeah actually this is gonna be for the first time in like 7-8 years, I’m gonna be able to, to fully, you know, even though we used to see her like every, you know, end of school term and I’d go and see her and stay with her and stuff like that, but it was just not the same as living full time.
So there was excitement from that kind of aspect of it but, the other excitement was, like I said, growing up I was always around different places, different cultures, the excitement as well came from actually being in a new place. I wanted to know what it felt like to be in a, in an English school, you know. In a school here in Hull, and to know what it was like to be in school and I wanted to know what it was like to go outside and mingle. But at the same time for me it was different because I had just come off that meningitis that I mentioned earlier. So I was fighting a totally different fight from everybody else. I was fighting a fight of, obviously I lost my eyesight at that point, fully, meaning - I’m having to learn a whole new lot of things, you know, from braille, to technology, to how to actually adapt to that situation - as well as adapting to a new country so which is a very, very tough battle. It’s a uphill battle, but you have to have, kind of, tough skin to pull through it so, and that’s why I said earlier I felt like moving and living between Zimbabwe and Johannesburg, in Zimbabwe and Johannesburg in South Africa, it kind of prepared me mentally, for the, for the - change of sort of culture side of it because that wasn't the hardest part for me when I got here. Because I can just adapt you know, you can take me to Australia right now and I’ll, I’ll fit in, with differ… for the first month, because I’m just used to it and you know, I’m not one of those that would be like, “Ahh I’m so used to having this” or, I’m so, you know, “The water’s different” you know, I’ll take what’s ever given and, you know, I roll with the punches sort of, kind of person.
JW: Subject matters at college and other areas of life, where do you feel you’ve flourished?
LS: - I would say it was probably the music - because like I said, when I first came off the meningitis mind of state - state of mind, it was just sort of like - that one year after it happened, it was like a window where, it was like a transition, like where do I go now? Where do I go now? I can’t play football like I use to, I can’t do certain things like I use to, so what’s next now? And - one thing I always use to do was listen to music. I always use to listen to music. I used to have, my mum bought me this 5 disk changer. I don’t know if the kids might not even know what a CD is nowadays, but, I used to have a 5 disk changer…yeah… what a CD? - Yeah but I used to have like this stereo with like 5 CDs, and that was real cool at that time.
JW: So, - so CDs, what were the five CDs that were most regularly played? - Some idea of the genre that you were interested in?
LS: Obviously hip hop because that was a culture that I grew up part off, so - that was - the poetic side of it and the actual lyricism where it actually use to speak to me, and then I used to listen to that. I used to listen to what we use to call kwaito music, which is our music from where I’m from. It’s a similar genre to hip hop but it’s - it’s more dance influenced, so it’s more like - kwaito, how do you explain kwaito? It’s, It’s, it’s, it’s urban, that’s how I can put it, it’s urban, you know. It’s the equivalent to hip hop to garage in the UK, to sort of garage music, it’s the equivalent to sort of reggae, dance hall sort of thing in Jamaica. It’s that sort of thing, it’s urban. It’s our version of urban music, and - I used to listen to that as well, and I would like to listen to stuff like, because my mum use to play stuff like Celine Dion - and all that stuff, like the old Toni Braxton." All that stuff like the old - Toni Braxtons
JW: I understand that, I understand that a little bit better.
LS: Yeah so
JW: Interviewer- Hip Hop … myself
LS: Yeah I used to listen to - Celine Dions, the Toni Braxtons, and as far as even some of the - Stevie Wonder stuff and - anything. Gregory Isaacs – anything, anything. I’ve always had a broad ear when it comes to music.
JW: Mmm
LS: So I like, I like the slow stuff, I like the urban stuff, I like, I like allsorts so that’s what I used to listen to anyway. And then fast forward, just listening to it, lead to the point where I felt, hold on I can do this, I think I can do it, you know what I’m saying so, I, I always had a rhythm for music because you know coming up from dance and stuff like that so yeah and then I discovered I actually could wr, I could write lyrics and I could rap so. I was like okay let me try this rap thing. So when I started school, I kinda started doing - what do they call it, - piano lessons - just to learn how to sorta of like put together chords and stuff like that. - I’m not that great at it but I’m not that great at playing piano but I can put together chords. I can write, definitely, and then I did drumming lessons as well later on and stuff like that and - I was doing pretty good at that and then, - I think I got like an A or something like that, in my GCSEs in Music , yeah it was an A, I can’t remember now. Yeah, it was an A or B, one of the two in Music. And then I went on to do music technology at er Hull College, which is sort of like the more studio tech side of stuff to music and - but that’s, that’s the academic side of it.
But outside of the academic side of it, I’ve always been doing music on my, you know, of my own strength basically trying to pursue a career in the music industry. It’s been tough, but - I started off, you know, doing gigs like at Adelphi, just open mic stuff like, this is like back in maybe like 2008, with a group called Projekt-feenix. They were quite popular at the time and another group called ‘The Gang” and - who were quite popular in Hull actually.
JW: How would you describe Hull’s music scene then?
LS: Er
JW: I’ve been to a few open mic nights, I’m a big fan of going to the Sesh on a Tuesday night and Humber Street Sesh Festival. I love the music at Freedom Festival and the like.
LS: Yeah
JW: But how would you describe the music scene in Hull?
LS: I think - it’s, it’s healthy, to a certain extent. I feel like - is there talent in Hull? Absolutely I do think there’s talent in Hull. From where I started to now, I can see the change, and you know like, like I said the cultural influence like that has been, been injected into Hull over the years, I can see it in the music as well. On the other hand I still feel like there’s room for im… (excuse me) I feel like there’s room for improvement in the sense of - exposure - it’s amazing that we have stuff like Springboard Festival and - like you said Humber Street, - Freedom Fest, - there’s many, there’s quite a lot of many other festivals that go on in Hull. But I would like to see a bit more diversity in what actually happens in the festivals if that makes sense.
JW: Okay
LS: I would like to see more reggae artists up there, I would like to see more urban artists up there, I would like to see more - pop artists up there. We’ve got a hell of rock bands in Hull.
JW: We certainly have yeah
LS: We have a hella, and - quite few of them do get showcasing and stuff like that and they do get to the forefront but I feel like, one side, is, the see-saws not balancing quite well you know there’s too much exposure. I think it’s because, how can I say this without sounding …
JW: You say it, we might cut it out but you say it
LS: Basically, okay, what I’m trying to say is, there’s, there’s obviously when it comes to you know the corporate side of stuff musically obviously the festivals and all that stuff - that’s not down to the musicians, that’s down to higher powers - what happens is down to higher powers and I feel like some people at the top are not really aware of what the kids wanna hear in 2016 and what is actually cool for the kids in 2016. It’s no longer year 2000s when Kings of Leon, was you know everywhere, and Kaiser Chiefs and Snow Patrol, it’s not, it’s not that anymore. You know, you’ve got your Rihannas, you’ve got your Beyonces now, you’ve got your whatever else is going on, you know what I’m saying, so we’d like to see the reflection of that culture in, in, in the community in Hull. As well as the other stuff as well. I’m not saying eliminate it, I’m saying that the balance needs to be right. Cos if you go anywhere else, Leeds, Manchester, wherever else, there’s a balance so yeah.
JW: I think you’re probably right. You are certainly right about the number of rock bands
LS: Yeah there’s a lot and …
JW: That particular genres very…
LS: Yeah and it’s because rock is probably one of the biggest genres of all time. So understandably so, but I want to see a rock band as well as a jazz band as well as a blues band, as well as a hip hop band, as well as an R n B band, reggae band. So I don’t wanna just go to 10 festivals and see the same band headline all festivals, doesn’t make sense. You know, you’re not gonna go to Glastonbury and see the same headliner every year now are you. Same thing with V festival, same thing with a lot of other festivals. Even, even Leeds Carnival, you’re not gonna see the same stuff always, you’re gonna see a broader spectrum of things. And I’d like to see that in Hull a little bit because we are diverse. There is a lot of us from different places, there’s Vietnamese, there’s Brazilians, there’s Malaysians, there’s Africans, there’s Europeans, I’d like to see that reflection of, you know, our community and in music as well.
JW: What would you like - Hull to learn of your African culture? There’s fashion, there’s foods.
LS: That’s a hard question
JW: There’s a whole lot more
LS: You know when you say African that is an umbrella term because
JW: Well course, yeah, I’m learning this
LS: Africa is such a diverse place like where I’m from is totally different from what Nigeria, Ghana and - Kenya. We all very different, you know, I’ve had people ask me a question like so, what language do you speak in Africa? I’m like, where in Africa?
Cos like in each country, for example a country like Nigeria, where they have hundreds of tribes within that one country. It’s like yeah what do you mean so and each of those tribes, I think in an African - this is the interesting part about Africa, each tribe has its own sort of identity and its own tradition and its own way of doing things so coming from where I come from, my mum is one thing, my dad is another thing.
JW: Uh hum.
LS: Two totally different things. You know what I’m saying so, already straight away I have those two in me, and then I grew up around other people who have other backgrounds as well. So when I say, so when you ask me the question what would I like Hull to learn from my African heritage, exactly that is what I would like Hull to learn, to actually bring diversity a bit more to the front. And actually yeah OK, there is diversity but to actually, I don’t know if acceptance is the right word, maybe not but I don’t know, but what I am trying to say is to actually – to celebrate it a bit more maybe that’s a better word.
JW: What about you yourself and personally, you know you’ve got the ability as a young fella as you are … to say 30 years ahead (I try), what are your ambitions where you going to be in a couple of decades time ?
LS: - well obviously the music is my passion, you know, I would like to become a successful music artist. I’ve reached sort of certain heights, but it’s hard because again, the city that I live in, hasn’t fully embraced the culture that I am apart of which is hip hop culture yet. There’s, the kids have, but the people up there that are pushing the media and stuff they need to get with the with the program, to help people like myself because there’s a lot of us.
So the music is the first thing. Really -, I’ve done shows with JLS when they were still going, I’ve done shows with a few US artists, I’ve done stuff that’s had hundreds of thousands of hits on Youtube and stuff like that so I’ve been quite lucky really in that sense - music-wise but I’d like to see that grow a bit more and hopefully hit number 1 at some point, - and then on the other side of it, I’ve always been interested in entrepreneurial stuff, so I would like to keep building my events management business and stuff like that - expanding to doing more things - obviously like I said, we’re doing the afrobeats thing right now, we also do the full flava stuff that we do with my - partner that I work with a lot, David Okwesia. We do, I mean he’s been going for a long time, he’s been going way before I was, Full Flava they were doing Grass Roots Festival and Full Flava Festival , and all that stuff, Hessle Road Carnival , he’s done a lot of stuff , but he’s sort of, kinda mentored me into it basically when I was kinda younger and stuff. And - I’d like to see that side of it grow and grow to do bigger gigs, bigger festivals and - I’m doing stuff across Yorkshire basically so that side of it as well so at the moment yeah those are my main focuses really, for now - will probably change, but or more add to it, to that resume but yeah.
JW: Well let’s hope the time is right for that to be accomplished.
LS: Yeah 2017 - I think that will be quite a healthy year for many people cos already I’m starting to see a lot of people coming up with ideas and, of how to showcase the culture which we have, which I’ve felt like it should of really been happening all along any way. But it doesn’t matter, it’s never too late. I’m starting to see certain festivals pop up. HU1 is one of them that happened this year where - is it Zebe-Zebedine…
JW: Zebedee’s yard
LS: Yeah that’s the one yeah – I did it there - which was quite good cos we need something like that – and other things going on, so I’m starting to see fashion, fashion stuff going on. Bespoke Boutiques they’re doing quite a lot of stuff and I know Gareth very well he’s a great guy and he’s got stuff going on. So it’s great to see stuff happening you know I think it’s a great time - it’s an exciting time for me personally as a young, a young person looking into the future I think.
JW: Lawrence it’s been absolutely - wonderful for you to come in and chat with us
LS: Oh thank you very much
JW: And share some of your journey and we’ll continue watching it.
LS: Thank you very much
JW: Thank you Lawrence, thank you
LS: Take care.
Interviewer: Jerome Whittingham
Date: 25 Aug 2016
JW: Well, Lawrence. Thank you for coming in. It’s really good to meet you. Just for the sake of the – the listeners to these podcasts – can you start off by introducing yourself please?
LS: Yeah. Sure. My name is Lawrence Sibanda – of African descent - both my parents are Zimbabwean so I am a Zimbabwean, but born and partially raised in Johannesburg, South Africa as well, so, but I was raised in between both countries, so - before I actually migrated to Hull to join my parents because – they moved here so - my whole family moved here.
JW: So you were born in which year?
LS: 1993
JW: 1993. I’m not going to do the maths but that’s relatively recent…
LS: that’s a year before Nelson Mandela came out of prison
JW: Right. OK so cast your mind back for me. Tell me something of the very earliest memory that you have being back in Africa.
LS: - haven’t been asked that question before actually. – Well, I was pretty much a kind of grandmother’s kind of baby to be quite honest with you because my mum was quite young when I was born and I have an older sister who’s 29 this week, actually. Yeah - and we both kind of basically grew up mainly watched by our grandparents because mum used to travel quite, - quite a lot actually. That’s how she ended up like in South Africa and all these places because she used to travel working and stuff like that. And I just remember, like, being you know around my grandmother and having this – surrounding around me with people of all types of background and - social classes and – just basically this diversity in the community and obviously the nice weather, the food, everything I remember really so that’s what I really kind of remember from, being like a child. It was all just innocent around me and, but at that time obviously you don’t really see the diff.., you don’t really see it for what it is, you just see it and it’s just normal to you, sort of thing, if that makes sense, so
JW: So what was this community, near a town, any major town or city?
LS: OK. Well. Let me start from the beginning. For me, basically – being in Johannesburg as a, as a child - That’s a big city, so we’re talking – bigger than London, quite a very big, busy place. Life is so fast, everything happening at once – and as a child that’s where I sort of, kind of started off, basically. And – I had friends who were sort of Jewish. Actually my best friend was half Jewish, half Hindu which I don’t know how that happened, but he was a, his mum was Indian and his Dad was a Jew and his name was Anirudh.
And basically we had friends who were Dutch, friends who were South Africans as well you know, Afrikaner friends, Zulu friends, all sorts of, it was so diverse around me that it was normal for me really at that time but at this time, but this time you we’re talking about a time when post-apartheid, which is a very sensitive time at that time. It was very, the division was real, you know, we’re not, you know, obviously certain people not being allowed in certain places and stuff like that, but – It was coming up to the point where it was coming to an end, but – it always, things like that are going to take a long time to sort of – be resolved basically among people themselves and to accept that this is the end of that era and stuff.
So as a child I didn’t really see it, you know, but when I think of it now, as an adult, and I’m like – damn yeah, it was a bit mad but - so…
JW: Give us some examples of the sort of things you were experiencing.
LS: Stuff like police brutality and stuff like that was happening, as well and racism, obviously, and classism and quite a lot but on the upside, it was a lot of - positives as well, because at that point, I mean, South Africa was one of the wealthiest nations in Africa, and so that meant there were sort of decent education and stuff like that for people but it was accessing that sort of stuff that was sort of difficult for people. But as I grew up things were getting better and better, and we were able to go to school with people from all different types of racial backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds.
And then, obviously, my Zimbabwean side, I grew up there as well because, as I said, my mum used to travel a lot, so I used to have to stay with my grandparents.
And that side of it was different, because Zimbabwe became independent back in 1980, so by the time I was born, they were already in a different place in the society altogether. But obviously, we all know the Robert Mugabe story - it was a different kind of struggle altogether.
It was, it was very different actually, I don’t even know how to explain it in words. It was more - it was more – Zimbabwe was more – it’s a lot more laid back a lot more relaxed. It’s not a fast city life as Johannesburg is, and South Africa is, it’s more laid back. It’s more, it’s ah, I don’t know actually how to put it into words. It’s just a different lifestyle altogether you know.
Yeah, but, but – it’s just, in a way – I’m grateful for those two very different upbringings I had , because it – it – it – put me in a place where I can actually be in any situation, in any kind of environment and be able to adapt because going from one extreme to the other, back and forth all the time, it was sort of like different, because I’d go to one place, and - I’d be surrounded by many Europeans, you know from Australians like I said to Dutch people to Afrikaners to black people, to all sorts of Indians and all kinds of people, and then go over to where I grew up in Zimbabwe, where I wasn’t surrounded by that at all. It was mainly just – my own people – and that was about it, in the environment where I was, so it was – it was two different places, but you know sort of similar struggles at different places.
JW: Did you enjoy one more than the other?
LS: - nah,nah I can’t say that. No, I think actually, ‘cos there was always something to learn from both of them, always something to learn. I think Zimbabwe taught me to – to be a survivor. That survival spirit because, going through the whole era, the early - days of it first switched to, from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe, it became a place where, I hate to say it but the regime that Robert Mugabe put in place it kind of became the place where, I don’t like to get political to be honest, but I’m trying to put it into perspective for you so you understand it.
JW: Yes
LS: The Robert Mugabe regime was more anti-British, anti-European, anti-West sort of society – that’s the sort of thing he was instilling into people so, it was a different lifestyle altogether because we didn’t see too much of the European influence by the time my generation got there because a lot of that was eliminated, whereas my parents would have done because it was a lot more integrated when they was kids. Whereas my, the other side, South African side, it brought – it gave me that, that skill to be able to adapt to different people, and different - communities and cultures and all that sort of stuff. Which has become, became more useful to me, living in Hull now, because - we are diverse, we are quite, - at this point we do have quite a lot of different cultures and all people from all sorts of different places living here, which is basically what I really saw when I was in South Africa, so – I can’t really say I prefer one over the other. I think that both kind of taught me different sides of what life could be and you need something to be learnt from that and use it in the future.
JW: Yeah, yes. So what - artistic or cultural influences had, had an effect, had an impact on you, as a, as a very young man?
LS: Yeah. Artistic. Are you speaking in the sense of music, arts?
JW: Yeah, of music, visual arts or whatever.
LS: Yeah, OK. Well, as a child actually me and my sister used to be very, very much into dance, that’s what we sort of used to, used to do when we were kids. So we used to do a lot of – well, personally for me I mean me and my sister we’re six years apart in age so she was a lot older than me when I was a kid but... I was a lot more up there and I used to do quite a lot of - stuff with some of the youth dance groups and stuff like that you know, which use to combine like African traditional dance sort of styles and stuff with contemporary styles. So I grew up doing stuff like that. Well I, I once was doing stuff with a group which was called New Age and another one that was - called Fresh Mix, which was sort like more contemporary and stuff. So – I kind of did a bit of that, and then my sister used to do stuff as well. And she used to do actual theatre live stuff when she was at high school. So in terms of art we both did that and then obviously as I grew up a bit more, I kind of like started getting into other things, I moved away from the dance a little bit and – I got into other things. Actually I got more into sport as I grew, as I got older. But then – that’s when I kind of had meningitis and – it resulted in - eyesight loss –
JW: – Oh I see
LS: And other problems like hearing loss and other severe problems really that come with being, having meningitis basically, so that meant that I couldn’t do sports that I wanted to do and stuff anymore, the way how I wanted to do it because I’m very competitive. If I can’t do something at the highest level I won’t do it. So then that’s when I kind of discovered the music because when I was recovering from it. At that point I think I was here. Yeah I was here by that point – I was in Hull and -
JW: Let's talk about that journey from Africa.
LS: Yeah sure.
JW: How did that come about?
LS: My mother again. She was always travelling like I mentioned earlier - so she migrated here, I think it was in 2002 or something like that, 3. She moved here and -
JW: Was that through work or through education?
LS: She was working at the time, I mean, she studied here - later on, but she was working at the time, she was basically just migrating as a refugee and seeking for greener pastures I guess. - I mean she did have a, you know, a good job back then at the time and stuff and - but obviously where we come from, there’s certain things that you, certain privileges you get here that you don’t get where we come from and, I think for her she was foreseeing the future sort of thing, she wanted us to have good education, she wanted us to have decent access to, you know, health services and stuff like that and, not that we didn’t have access to that but it cost a lot of money compared to being here, if that makes sense. So she kind of worked at it and worked at it and, actually she used to work for a medical aid company back home called Discovery Health. People don’t have medical aids in the UK but, because we have the NHS, but basically a medical aid is something that, - for people who don’t know, is something that you, it’s sort of like -
JW: An insurance?
LS: An insurance yeah, that you pay a certain amount of money towards, you know every month, in case you get ill or you need a funeral paid for, or anybody in your family gets ill, that money would pay those bills because it is expensive. So that’s what my Mum used to do at the time and - she worked her way up that rank and from where she used to be as a child to where she was as an adult, she worked her way up into that place and then obviously ended up here -
JW: So, how old where you roughly, ten years ago?
LS: At that time? - When my mum left you mean? -
JW: Yeah, and when you moved to the UK.
LS: Ye…I was around 13.
JW: 13?
LS: Yeah I was around 13.
JW: You were very aware of culture.
LS: Yeah I was very, very aware, yeah.
JW: So what, what was it like to be told that you were going to be moving from Africa to - to the UK?
LS: It was hard. It was hard because - at that age you know what it’s like: you’ve got friends, you’re used to your own community. The majority of my family are not here anyway. My Dad is here, my Mum is here and - a few of my uncle and aunties and cousins and stuff, but the majority, like about 80% of my family, they’re all back there, so it was hard in that sense because it was like, I have to separate myself from everything that I’ve gotten used to, you know, imagine it’s like being, it’s like driving on the, you know, right hand side all your life, - keep left and then suddenly they change everything on the roads, you know, we keep right now, do you know what I am saying, it’s like, now you’ve got to learn how to adapt to the whole system over again. So I wasn’t sure how it was going to be like school-wise. I wasn’t sure of what the language, well obviously I always spoke English, but it’s different, you know the dialect is different.
I’m coming to a city called Hull, l mean ’cos the thing is most people, right, in Africa, if you speak of Britain or England, they instantly think of London, right, everybody thinks it’s gonna look like London, so my mum is like no you’re not going to London, you’re going to Hull, and I’m like “Hull, where is Hull?” Where is that? You know what I mean. I’ve never heard of it. I’ve heard of Manchester ‘cos of football, Manchester United…
JW: Yeah.
LS: I’ve heard of Liverpool because of football. I’ve never heard of Hull. Where is Hull? You know. So I moved to Hull and I get here and, I didn’t know what to expect. I really didn’t know what to expect. It was just like…
JW: Why Hull in particular then?
LS: I don’t know why. That’s something to ask my Mum I guess. I followed her here and she was, you know. I think, I think she had relatives. Okay my Mum’s relatives like my Mum’s cousins and stuff, who came here before her, happened to live in Brough and one - one lived in South Cave. So when she moved here that’s the only kind of closest family that she had really in this region. I guess she kind of stopped here and she just stayed here I guess. She never really relocated although those relatives that she had here have all moved now to elsewhere. But she just stayed here I guess and - that was that, really.
JW: So for you as a 12-13 year old - you found it really hard, a real wrench to be taken from Africa to come to the UK. Was there any excitement mixed with that too then?
LS: Yeah it was because obviously you’re reuniting with your mum full time because I honestly growing up, I’d never actually lived fully with my Mum since I was like 5 or something, because of her having to be away all the time working and stuff and, I understood because if she hadn’t done what had to do, we would be in a very bad place, so she had to do what she had to do, at that time, so the excitement for me mainly came from reuniting with my mother and actually living with her full time and it was like, yeah actually this is gonna be for the first time in like 7-8 years, I’m gonna be able to, to fully, you know, even though we used to see her like every, you know, end of school term and I’d go and see her and stay with her and stuff like that, but it was just not the same as living full time.
So there was excitement from that kind of aspect of it but, the other excitement was, like I said, growing up I was always around different places, different cultures, the excitement as well came from actually being in a new place. I wanted to know what it felt like to be in a, in an English school, you know. In a school here in Hull, and to know what it was like to be in school and I wanted to know what it was like to go outside and mingle. But at the same time for me it was different because I had just come off that meningitis that I mentioned earlier. So I was fighting a totally different fight from everybody else. I was fighting a fight of, obviously I lost my eyesight at that point, fully, meaning - I’m having to learn a whole new lot of things, you know, from braille, to technology, to how to actually adapt to that situation - as well as adapting to a new country so which is a very, very tough battle. It’s a uphill battle, but you have to have, kind of, tough skin to pull through it so, and that’s why I said earlier I felt like moving and living between Zimbabwe and Johannesburg, in Zimbabwe and Johannesburg in South Africa, it kind of prepared me mentally, for the, for the - change of sort of culture side of it because that wasn't the hardest part for me when I got here. Because I can just adapt you know, you can take me to Australia right now and I’ll, I’ll fit in, with differ… for the first month, because I’m just used to it and you know, I’m not one of those that would be like, “Ahh I’m so used to having this” or, I’m so, you know, “The water’s different” you know, I’ll take what’s ever given and, you know, I roll with the punches sort of, kind of person.
JW: Subject matters at college and other areas of life, where do you feel you’ve flourished?
LS: - I would say it was probably the music - because like I said, when I first came off the meningitis mind of state - state of mind, it was just sort of like - that one year after it happened, it was like a window where, it was like a transition, like where do I go now? Where do I go now? I can’t play football like I use to, I can’t do certain things like I use to, so what’s next now? And - one thing I always use to do was listen to music. I always use to listen to music. I used to have, my mum bought me this 5 disk changer. I don’t know if the kids might not even know what a CD is nowadays, but, I used to have a 5 disk changer…yeah… what a CD? - Yeah but I used to have like this stereo with like 5 CDs, and that was real cool at that time.
JW: So, - so CDs, what were the five CDs that were most regularly played? - Some idea of the genre that you were interested in?
LS: Obviously hip hop because that was a culture that I grew up part off, so - that was - the poetic side of it and the actual lyricism where it actually use to speak to me, and then I used to listen to that. I used to listen to what we use to call kwaito music, which is our music from where I’m from. It’s a similar genre to hip hop but it’s - it’s more dance influenced, so it’s more like - kwaito, how do you explain kwaito? It’s, It’s, it’s, it’s urban, that’s how I can put it, it’s urban, you know. It’s the equivalent to hip hop to garage in the UK, to sort of garage music, it’s the equivalent to sort of reggae, dance hall sort of thing in Jamaica. It’s that sort of thing, it’s urban. It’s our version of urban music, and - I used to listen to that as well, and I would like to listen to stuff like, because my mum use to play stuff like Celine Dion - and all that stuff, like the old Toni Braxton." All that stuff like the old - Toni Braxtons
JW: I understand that, I understand that a little bit better.
LS: Yeah so
JW: Interviewer- Hip Hop … myself
LS: Yeah I used to listen to - Celine Dions, the Toni Braxtons, and as far as even some of the - Stevie Wonder stuff and - anything. Gregory Isaacs – anything, anything. I’ve always had a broad ear when it comes to music.
JW: Mmm
LS: So I like, I like the slow stuff, I like the urban stuff, I like, I like allsorts so that’s what I used to listen to anyway. And then fast forward, just listening to it, lead to the point where I felt, hold on I can do this, I think I can do it, you know what I’m saying so, I, I always had a rhythm for music because you know coming up from dance and stuff like that so yeah and then I discovered I actually could wr, I could write lyrics and I could rap so. I was like okay let me try this rap thing. So when I started school, I kinda started doing - what do they call it, - piano lessons - just to learn how to sorta of like put together chords and stuff like that. - I’m not that great at it but I’m not that great at playing piano but I can put together chords. I can write, definitely, and then I did drumming lessons as well later on and stuff like that and - I was doing pretty good at that and then, - I think I got like an A or something like that, in my GCSEs in Music , yeah it was an A, I can’t remember now. Yeah, it was an A or B, one of the two in Music. And then I went on to do music technology at er Hull College, which is sort of like the more studio tech side of stuff to music and - but that’s, that’s the academic side of it.
But outside of the academic side of it, I’ve always been doing music on my, you know, of my own strength basically trying to pursue a career in the music industry. It’s been tough, but - I started off, you know, doing gigs like at Adelphi, just open mic stuff like, this is like back in maybe like 2008, with a group called Projekt-feenix. They were quite popular at the time and another group called ‘The Gang” and - who were quite popular in Hull actually.
JW: How would you describe Hull’s music scene then?
LS: Er
JW: I’ve been to a few open mic nights, I’m a big fan of going to the Sesh on a Tuesday night and Humber Street Sesh Festival. I love the music at Freedom Festival and the like.
LS: Yeah
JW: But how would you describe the music scene in Hull?
LS: I think - it’s, it’s healthy, to a certain extent. I feel like - is there talent in Hull? Absolutely I do think there’s talent in Hull. From where I started to now, I can see the change, and you know like, like I said the cultural influence like that has been, been injected into Hull over the years, I can see it in the music as well. On the other hand I still feel like there’s room for im… (excuse me) I feel like there’s room for improvement in the sense of - exposure - it’s amazing that we have stuff like Springboard Festival and - like you said Humber Street, - Freedom Fest, - there’s many, there’s quite a lot of many other festivals that go on in Hull. But I would like to see a bit more diversity in what actually happens in the festivals if that makes sense.
JW: Okay
LS: I would like to see more reggae artists up there, I would like to see more urban artists up there, I would like to see more - pop artists up there. We’ve got a hell of rock bands in Hull.
JW: We certainly have yeah
LS: We have a hella, and - quite few of them do get showcasing and stuff like that and they do get to the forefront but I feel like, one side, is, the see-saws not balancing quite well you know there’s too much exposure. I think it’s because, how can I say this without sounding …
JW: You say it, we might cut it out but you say it
LS: Basically, okay, what I’m trying to say is, there’s, there’s obviously when it comes to you know the corporate side of stuff musically obviously the festivals and all that stuff - that’s not down to the musicians, that’s down to higher powers - what happens is down to higher powers and I feel like some people at the top are not really aware of what the kids wanna hear in 2016 and what is actually cool for the kids in 2016. It’s no longer year 2000s when Kings of Leon, was you know everywhere, and Kaiser Chiefs and Snow Patrol, it’s not, it’s not that anymore. You know, you’ve got your Rihannas, you’ve got your Beyonces now, you’ve got your whatever else is going on, you know what I’m saying, so we’d like to see the reflection of that culture in, in, in the community in Hull. As well as the other stuff as well. I’m not saying eliminate it, I’m saying that the balance needs to be right. Cos if you go anywhere else, Leeds, Manchester, wherever else, there’s a balance so yeah.
JW: I think you’re probably right. You are certainly right about the number of rock bands
LS: Yeah there’s a lot and …
JW: That particular genres very…
LS: Yeah and it’s because rock is probably one of the biggest genres of all time. So understandably so, but I want to see a rock band as well as a jazz band as well as a blues band, as well as a hip hop band, as well as an R n B band, reggae band. So I don’t wanna just go to 10 festivals and see the same band headline all festivals, doesn’t make sense. You know, you’re not gonna go to Glastonbury and see the same headliner every year now are you. Same thing with V festival, same thing with a lot of other festivals. Even, even Leeds Carnival, you’re not gonna see the same stuff always, you’re gonna see a broader spectrum of things. And I’d like to see that in Hull a little bit because we are diverse. There is a lot of us from different places, there’s Vietnamese, there’s Brazilians, there’s Malaysians, there’s Africans, there’s Europeans, I’d like to see that reflection of, you know, our community and in music as well.
JW: What would you like - Hull to learn of your African culture? There’s fashion, there’s foods.
LS: That’s a hard question
JW: There’s a whole lot more
LS: You know when you say African that is an umbrella term because
JW: Well course, yeah, I’m learning this
LS: Africa is such a diverse place like where I’m from is totally different from what Nigeria, Ghana and - Kenya. We all very different, you know, I’ve had people ask me a question like so, what language do you speak in Africa? I’m like, where in Africa?
Cos like in each country, for example a country like Nigeria, where they have hundreds of tribes within that one country. It’s like yeah what do you mean so and each of those tribes, I think in an African - this is the interesting part about Africa, each tribe has its own sort of identity and its own tradition and its own way of doing things so coming from where I come from, my mum is one thing, my dad is another thing.
JW: Uh hum.
LS: Two totally different things. You know what I’m saying so, already straight away I have those two in me, and then I grew up around other people who have other backgrounds as well. So when I say, so when you ask me the question what would I like Hull to learn from my African heritage, exactly that is what I would like Hull to learn, to actually bring diversity a bit more to the front. And actually yeah OK, there is diversity but to actually, I don’t know if acceptance is the right word, maybe not but I don’t know, but what I am trying to say is to actually – to celebrate it a bit more maybe that’s a better word.
JW: What about you yourself and personally, you know you’ve got the ability as a young fella as you are … to say 30 years ahead (I try), what are your ambitions where you going to be in a couple of decades time ?
LS: - well obviously the music is my passion, you know, I would like to become a successful music artist. I’ve reached sort of certain heights, but it’s hard because again, the city that I live in, hasn’t fully embraced the culture that I am apart of which is hip hop culture yet. There’s, the kids have, but the people up there that are pushing the media and stuff they need to get with the with the program, to help people like myself because there’s a lot of us.
So the music is the first thing. Really -, I’ve done shows with JLS when they were still going, I’ve done shows with a few US artists, I’ve done stuff that’s had hundreds of thousands of hits on Youtube and stuff like that so I’ve been quite lucky really in that sense - music-wise but I’d like to see that grow a bit more and hopefully hit number 1 at some point, - and then on the other side of it, I’ve always been interested in entrepreneurial stuff, so I would like to keep building my events management business and stuff like that - expanding to doing more things - obviously like I said, we’re doing the afrobeats thing right now, we also do the full flava stuff that we do with my - partner that I work with a lot, David Okwesia. We do, I mean he’s been going for a long time, he’s been going way before I was, Full Flava they were doing Grass Roots Festival and Full Flava Festival , and all that stuff, Hessle Road Carnival , he’s done a lot of stuff , but he’s sort of, kinda mentored me into it basically when I was kinda younger and stuff. And - I’d like to see that side of it grow and grow to do bigger gigs, bigger festivals and - I’m doing stuff across Yorkshire basically so that side of it as well so at the moment yeah those are my main focuses really, for now - will probably change, but or more add to it, to that resume but yeah.
JW: Well let’s hope the time is right for that to be accomplished.
LS: Yeah 2017 - I think that will be quite a healthy year for many people cos already I’m starting to see a lot of people coming up with ideas and, of how to showcase the culture which we have, which I’ve felt like it should of really been happening all along any way. But it doesn’t matter, it’s never too late. I’m starting to see certain festivals pop up. HU1 is one of them that happened this year where - is it Zebe-Zebedine…
JW: Zebedee’s yard
LS: Yeah that’s the one yeah – I did it there - which was quite good cos we need something like that – and other things going on, so I’m starting to see fashion, fashion stuff going on. Bespoke Boutiques they’re doing quite a lot of stuff and I know Gareth very well he’s a great guy and he’s got stuff going on. So it’s great to see stuff happening you know I think it’s a great time - it’s an exciting time for me personally as a young, a young person looking into the future I think.
JW: Lawrence it’s been absolutely - wonderful for you to come in and chat with us
LS: Oh thank you very much
JW: And share some of your journey and we’ll continue watching it.
LS: Thank you very much
JW: Thank you Lawrence, thank you
LS: Take care.